The Clash & Joe Strummer

[Jonathan E.]

For some reason watching the Joe Strummer biopic (that's a technical term), The Future Is Unwritten, a few nights back set me off on a major Clash obsession. For a while I was really into them, grew away as they headed downhill, got somewhat interested again a few years back, especially the dubbier stuff of Sandinista! and the 12" of that time. Seems to me that they suffered from some major Achilles' heels-type problems related to ego and rock stardom that tripped them up. But The Future Is Unwritten went on and on about what a great guy Strummer was in person. And thanks to a nudge from Ian A. on a fRoots compilation CD, I did eventually develop a liking for Global A Go-Go, the middle Mescaleros album.

Anyone here got interesting opinions, care to regale us with trenchant analysis, tender reminiscence, scandalous details, you know the usual SotW nine-yards of hoohah, musical history, and revisionist heresy?

[Ted]

O come on. I really think we have done this subject to death on the forum over the years. If anyone has anything new to say about it I will be astonished. And Pleased. But astonished.

[Adam Blake]

I preferred The Damned.





I'll get my coat...

[garth cartwright]

dig into the archives Jon and u will find the Clash debate - launched by that awful doc u have just watched. As Ted says, no one surely has anything more to add (about the most overrated British band in history - and I say that as someone who owns a few Clash CDs).

[howard male]

Garth wrote -

about the most overrated British band in history

Yes, that's one opinion - but are Strummer's Mescaleros the most underrated band in history? Probably not, but there's certainly some material there which stands up well to the best The Clash gave us.

[CantSleepClownsWillGetMe]

about the most overrated British band in history

Now there's something I never expected to read on SoTW. I must have missed the original debate, but my assumption was that The Clash were worshipped by everyone on here, except me.

I always thought they were no better, and no worse than many other bands of that era, and came to the conclusion that it must be a bloke thing. Was it? Did they have a big female following? (and that doesn't mean one large female stalker)

June

[Con Murphy]

I think the last Clash debate started around about here:-

http://www.charliegillett.com/phpBB2/vi ... c&start=15

[Jonathan E.]

Thanks for the pointer. I'll start reading.

I'm not surprised there hasn't been previous discussion — or that I missed it. The archival system of SotW and how to search it continues to defeat me. Is there any method other than personal memory and/or advanced Google search?

I guess I at least got my "trenchant analysis" with Gar's dismissive "that awful doc"!

[Con Murphy]

Thanks for the pointer. I'll start reading.

I'm not surprised there hasn't been previous discussion — or that I missed it. The archival system of SotW and how to search it continues to defeat me. Is there any method other than personal memory and/or advanced Google search?

I suppose the forum's search can be more helpul if you know which author you are looking for, and/or which individual forum area to look in, although it's a bit of a pain because the whole thread is returned rather than individual posts. I entered "The Clash" AND "Strummer" as Keywords and garth cartwright as Author, and the result was limited enough for it to be worth proceeding. I guess that's not always the case.

[Chris P]

it's a bit of a pain because the whole thread is returned rather than individual posts.

Choose 'Display Posts' instead of 'Display Topics'
(bottom left of Search screen)

[Jonathan E.]

Oh! What fun! What a lot of searching to do!

Thanks for the search tips. Just what I needed and now I can read all sorts of stuff from bygone days. I need never bother anyone in "real time" again!

Being someone who frequently changes his mind (or never makes it up in the first place), I'm just a little curious if all those opinions of yore are likely to hold. Or do others live in a constant state of reappraisal?

[Con Murphy]

it's a bit of a pain because the whole thread is returned rather than individual posts.

Choose 'Display Posts' instead of 'Display Topics'
(bottom left of Search screen)

Of course! Found that before, then forgot about it. That's age for you. Thanks Chris.

[Gordon Neill]

I've just had a look back at the original thread. To my horror, I find that I listed them at the top of my favourite bands of that era. I feel so ashamed.

But surely the Clash weren't the most overrated British band in history (MOBBIH). Overrated, yes. Their albums can be a bit patchy, particularly when they stretched to double and triple albums. But they did produce some of the best songs of that era.

There are more obvious candidates for the coveted MOBBIH title. There's easy pickings amongst the prog rock bin but, sticking within the Clash era, surely the Sex Pistols were dramatically more overrated. A TV interview where they used sweary words transformed them from very naughty boys into rebels without a pause. One good album, which was basically a single sneer set to music (and, in fairness, a very good sneer) followed by a series of cash-in pieces of crap. Using smart-arse ironic titles such as 'The Great Rock'n'Roll Swindle' and 'Flogging a Dead Horse' didn't make those albums anything other than deeply, deeply cynical exercises in transferring cash. As a way of preserving valuable careers, it was the sort of thing that would make the likes of Cliff Richard blush.

[Jonathan E.]

For those who missed it the first time, can't be bothered to search, or are otherwise freshly interested, there's the trenchant analysis of The Future Is Unwritten that I was looking for from Mr. Cartwright at http://www.charliegillett.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4918&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=clash&start=105. Very trenchant. The following page also has some interesting comments from many forum regulars. The whole thing took place just about a year ago.

As usual, a wide variety of opinions.

In the case of Gar's opinion of the film, I think he tells about half the truth with a lot of journalist attitude that, while it might be in the required house style for punk criticism, is ironically enough also nostalgically reflective of its subject. The sneering at "A-listers," complaint of "the likes of Bono and Johnny Depp" daring to express an opinion, and claim that the film gives "the Clash [ . . . ] a musical and social importance way beyond what they actually achieved," all reek of the good old rejected-outsider-nothing's-any-good-so-let's-tear-it-apart attitude that I recall so well from those times. As I said, my interest in The Clash has waned and waxed, but I vividly remember a few years ago (about ten actually) realizing that The Clash had had more of a worldwide influence than I'd thought when I heard them quoted prominently in one of the Fermin Muguruza albums. Obviously, there are plenty of other examples of their influence that could be quoted. So, ultimately, I have to wonder what significance to assign to one writer's negative opinion of the music when the evidence on the ground so contradicts that opinion. It somewhat reminds me of the authoritarian, dismissive remarks so often made by the cultural mandarins and minders when faced with a newly popular uprising. Strange that it is now being applied retroactively and in such a revisionist way.

[Jonathan E.]

There are more obvious candidates for the coveted MOBBIH title. There's easy pickings amongst the prog rock bin but, sticking within the Clash era, surely the Sex Pistols were dramatically more overrated.

My personal candidates for MOBBIH in The Clash era would be Joy Division. Yes, they have that one great downer of a song, but beyond that . . . ? New Order didn't do much for me either. However, all time MOBBIH are undoubtedly The Smiths, although Blur and Oasis are not far behind.