Peter Green - BBC 4 Documentary

[Charlie]

BBC 4 has done it again, made a perfect film about a musician I knew precious little about before this.

Fleetwood Mac always seemed a split personality band, spending half the time doing redundant version of blues classics but occasionally popping up in the charts with the delicious Albatross, the heart rending Man of the World and the inscrutable Oh Well.

According to rumour, guitarist and songwriter Peter Green lost his mind, and another guitarist Jeremy Spencer got caught up in a religious sect.

Whatever their past wanderings, here they seemed surprisingly coherent, especially Green himself, very sympathetic as he tried to remember details that were almost lost in the haze of LSD trips, years in mental asylums and the unforgivable violence of electric shock treatment. His brothers saved him, it transpired.

Producer Mike Vernon and drummer Mick Fleetwood still recalled most of the details and so did ex-manager Clifford Davis (aka Clifford Adams in his co-writing guise).

Incredible story and glimpses of great music.

[NormanD]

Once again, SOTW's earlier discussion on British blues complements this programme, and some of the stories trump it!

I only managed to see the first twenty mins of this programme as our visitors didn't share my madness for Peter Green. What was a pleasant shock was seeing how OK he now seems - articulate, a decent memory and - most importantly - life and colour in his eyes. He was a handsome young man, almost like a swashbuckler in his prime, and he has turned into one of his brothers - bald, East End, Jewish geezers, and happy with it too.

I contend that he had one of the most expressive and heart-rending white voices for the blues, understated and not overdone in its need to imitate. In many ways, that always impressed me more than his guitar playing, a whole subject in itself.

I saw him two times. The first, he was wearing a gorilla's head for the whole performance (1968?). Then at his comeback thirty years later, when he wasn't much cop (in all honesty), but he was there, and that's what counted. Now, he looks a contented man. Whether he ever plays again, let alone achieves the heights, makes no difference to me - there was life in his eyes.

[Charlie]

Then at his comeback thirty years later, when he wasn't much cop (in all honesty), but he was there, and that's what counted. Now, he looks a contented man. Whether he ever plays again, let alone achieves the heights, makes no difference to me - there was life in his eyes.

The rumour at the time (ie, thirty years later) was that Peter had forgotten how to play his own guitar parts, and so one of the other guitarists played them for him, while his own amp was turned off. Same thing happened briefly with Syd Barrett and Pink Floyd years ago.

Like you, Norman, I was charmed by the man himself, as he is now.

[Adam Blake]

I've got house guests which severely limits how much time I can spend watching things like this. Drat, and double drat - as my old friend Dick Dastardly once observed. I don't think there's any question over Peter being the best blues singer and guitarist the UK ever produced. I would have thought B B King's testimonial to be pretty final. I saw a couple of those gigs where Peter was just stood on stage like a zombie with a new Stratocaster hung round his neck while a bunch of African session musicians played his music. It was one of the strangest and saddest sights I've ever seen on a stage. It's more than good to see that he's come back to life again, even if he's not doing much singing or playing to speak of. His contribution from 1966-70 is one of the most lasting and valid of that wildly fecund era in British music. It's good that he is honoured and remembered and perhaps even better that he has maybe regained sufficient of his marbles to look back without rancour and feel pride in his achievements.

[garth cartwright]

I hope they repeat this as i didn't know it was on. I love the music PG made with FM, whether hard blues rock (Rattleshake Snake, Green Marishi) or slow burn soul blues (Love That Burns, Black Magic Woman). I'd be willing to say not only was he the greatest ever British guitarist but his best recordings are amongst the finest British popular music. He had what I can only call "feel" - every note seems to have been considered, stroked (or kicked on the hard ones), nothing is wasted. Why the work of Jeff Beck, Eric Clapton and Led Zep still get so so much attention while Green seems to be left to conisseurs like this forum I don't know. I did see him play with the Splinter Group once in the 90s and it was sad - he looked medicated, the guitarist from Elton John's early 70s band did all his guitar parts (badly) and there was no sense of the man being engaged with the music. Great to know he is healthy and happy!

[john poole]

Man of the World will be available via BBC iPlayer until 11pm on Friday 15th May. Essential viewing for Peter's admirers; as others have said it was a treat to see him appearing to be so happy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00k92x1

[judith]

Why the work of Jeff Beck, Eric Clapton and Led Zep still get so so much attention while Green seems to be left to conisseurs like this forum I don't know.

I really hate to say this because I know it will make certain readers of this thread sick to their stomachs and if I am mis-quoted it could get me into deep trouble, but partly it's because over here in popcultureland where legends are hype and money driven, Fleetwood Mac is Stevie Nicks. It wasn't until around 1970 that the superstardom afforded 60's musician's musicians and/or media attractive performers began happening and it wasn't until around then that the likes of Jeff Beck and Eric Clapton were beginning to be commonly known as solo artists, becoming household names...around 1970 was also when Peter Green disappeared from the stage, Santana recorded Black Magic Woman and Warhol started making what previously would have been considered an obscene amount of money - if I remember correctly.

I tried to see if I could access the program this thread is about, could not, and began reading articles and watching YouTube clips. I had to wade through American pop Fleetwood Mac to get to the real stuff. That's the cool thing about YouTube, you can easily get in behind the surface and the real stuff is there. Peter Green (and he is not alone) is either being rediscovered or at the very least, his work is being archived.
By the way, I hadn't known what a difficult life Danny Kirwan has had or that he is still living. (He is also on Youtube)

[Adam Blake]

I once got panhandled by Danny Kirwan in the Strand. I gave him 50p. I would have given him more but that was all the change I had. That was over 20 years ago and, as far as I know, he's still on the streets. The history of Fleetwood Mac is surely one of the strangest stories in rock'n'roll.

[AndyM]

This was shown again yesterday and is on the iPlayer. First time I'd seen it, and an instructive tale it is. I'd endorse all the comments made above about PG's talent, and the sadness of what happened, and the relative peace he seems to have achieved. An outstanding documentary.

[AndyM]

And, for the sake of completeness, there's also a (repeated) band history with the emphasis on the Buckingham/Nicks incarnation. Still great music, though differently great.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... Dont_Stop/

[Adam Blake]

Co-incidentally, I watched the "Don't Stop" documentary last night. An extraordinary tale, entertainingly told and, yes, they did make some excellent pop music - which I completely ignored at the time out of a sense of loyalty to Peter Green.

John McVie and Mick Fleetwood must have some of the most outlandish stories. One got the sense that they barely skimmed the surface in these two documentaries. Libel and obscenity laws notwithstanding! But in reference to Peter Green, when McVie says: "it breaks my heart, what happened", you get the feeling he's telling the literal truth.

[AndyM]

Which leaves the question of their 'middle' period, five or so early 70s albums. Never heard them, but are there any gems worth extracting ?

[Adam Blake]

Hah! Truthfully, I doubt it. I laugh because one of the first gigs I ever saw was Fleetwood Mac at the Leas Cliff Hall, Folkestone in Summer 1973. It cost me 75p to get in and I had a great old time. But the records... Let's see. I had "Kiln House" for awhile but it really wasn't very good. It didn't survive the great punk purges of '77-'78. Never heard "Future Games", "Bare Trees", "Penguin", "Mystery To Me", "Heroes Are Hard To Find" - God... That's a lot of records. I can see their covers in my mind's eye looking up sorrowfully at me from any number of 2nd hand record shop racks, marked down to £1.25, 75p... Somehow there was always something more important to spend money on. Like Focus or Rory Gallagher. There was a nice Bob Welch song called "Sentimental Lady" on a Warners sampler that had a circular sleeve, "Fruity". Or at least I thought it was nice until I played it again. Yuk...

John? Can you help us out here?

[john poole]

John? Can you help us out here?

Not really. I have "Kiln House" (probably purchased for around 75p) but not the albums that followed. I think "Bare Trees" is generally considered to be the best from their early 70s output, although after sampling it via YouTube I don't think that it has lasted all that well (I'd rather listen to it than Focus though).

I did however rediscover the 1971 single 'Dragonfly' - a Danny Kirwan song which I really liked then, and still like now. It was the only post Peter Green track included on Fleetwood Mac's Greatest Hits LP issued later that year.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEQ07_22YA0

and here's a version from "Beat Club" complete with gaudy psychedelic effects
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nz2KNLMWud8

[Adam Blake]

Lovely version! And, yes, that "Fleetwood Mac's Greatest Hits" album. It went off like a bomb in my life when I was 11. I remember listening to "Love That Burns" over and over, and my jazz loving father coming in and saying that the guitar player phrased like Louis Armstrong. I didn't know what he meant then. I do now. Thanks, dad.

(Talking about F.Mac always gets autobiographical with me. I hope that's OK.)