A Question of Pretentiousness and Theatricality

[Dayna]

People like Barbara Streisand, Frank Sinatra, & other Las Vegas types, right? I have never been impressed by them. They don't really even seem like artists to me...

I was really trying to fit into this discussion here with what I know.
This was supposed to be an example of pretentiouness in Pop music as I've known it.

[howard male]

Gordon thought and then wrote -

My head is starting to hurt again. We're back on this circular argument. What can I say? If pretentious pop stars pretended not to be pretentious, I'd pretend to like pretentious pop stars. But I'm not sure if this would mean that I now liked Bjork. Or pretended to. What if my pretence wasn't genuine and I turned to actally like her? Oh dear. But at least if Bjork pretended to shut up, I'd be happy. Her very essence might still be pretentious, but I'd be prepared to ignore and forget. She sells sea shells on the sea shore. Round and round the radical road the radical rascal ran. A noisy noise annoys an oyster. Oh dear. How do I get out of this pointless discussion? Howard always has to have the last word.

The last word is yours, Gordon - I have nothing to even equal this fine chunk of Lewis Caroll-ish laughs and logic.

However I must just say a quick sorry to Dayna as I think she's feeling ignored in this strand. I think it's just that I(and maybe others?) couldn't quite figure out how Sinatra and Streisand fitted into all this. They're just showbiz types doing their showbiz thing, and if we define them as pretentious (or even others like them) we might as well just say all performing artists are pretentious, and then we just end up disappearing down the rabbit hole of our (or Gordon's) own making.

... sorry Gordon, I seem to have had some more last words. Please - over to you. Be my guest. I won't say another word, really I won't. Honestly. The ball's in your court - and do keep it - don't go and lob it back over to me or anything. Otherwise I'll be compelled to knock it straight back. And then we'll be back where we started, and we don't want that do we? Or do we? No we don't.... Or do we?

[Gordon Moore]

The last word is yours, Gordon - I have nothing to even equal this fine chunk of Lewis Caroll-ish laughs and logic.

... sorry Gordon, I seem to have had some more last words. Please - over to you. Be my guest. I won't say another word, really I won't. Honestly. The ball's in your court - and do keep it - don't go and lob it back over to me or anything. Otherwise I'll be compelled to knock it straight back. And then we'll be back where we started, and we don't want that do we? Or do we? No we don't.... Or do we?

What the smeg are you on about?

hehehe

Spartacus

[Gordon Neill]

Sadly, I feel I must agree with Howard. I know it's not the accepted procedure. But I don't think that Sinatra or Streisland are particularly pretentious. They're not to my taste, I find them rather mannered. Sinatra did have a terrific voice, although it's a bit croaked now. But I can't recall Frank or Babs earnestly explaining the meaning of life or suggesting how many squares of toilet paper we should use. And for that I am eternally grateful.

The person with the weird Clown name said:

Isn't it a touch pretentious to care whether she's pretentious or not?

Not if you're just pretending to care.

PS The name. Please explain. What would the clowns do to you? Are you really Halle Berry?

PPS Hang on, you're not related to Colin Cantsleepclownswillgetme? Used to work in the pie shop in Dumfries high street?

[Dayna]

Thanks.

[CantSleepClownsWillGetMe]

Gordon Neill enquired

PS The name. Please explain. What would the clowns do to you? Are you really Halle Berry?

PPS Hang on, you're not related to Colin Cantsleepclownswillgetme? Used to work in the pie shop in Dumfries high street?

No. No relation whatsoever. But why no-one's mentioned him to me before is a mystery. Its not a name you hear every day is it? Colin.

The story behind my name is, I'm afraid, quite banal. After a long and eventful labour (It was a breech birth, with complications - I came out sideways, carrying an anvil), my mother was, understandably, a little traumatised. For part of her labour she had to be heavily sedated and was still a little drowsy, yet my father picked that moment to ask what name she had chosen for their child. Although her answer was muffled somewhat by an oxygen mask, the shriek was clear enough. He registered the name the following day, and here I am.

The whole thing reminds me of a story I heard recently. A nurse was carefully examining her patient's scrotum after hearing his muffled enquiry "Are my testicles black?" After several minutes of cupping, weighing and prodding, the nurse assured the man that his testicles were not discoloured in any way.

The man then removed his mask, smiled, and said, very slowly "That was all very nice, but what I said was 'Are my test results back?'"

I consider myself very fortunate indeed that she never became a midwife.

[Gordon Neill]

Thank you CantSleepClownsWillGetMe for quite a full answer. There are a few loose ends. Was your father a blacksmith? Or was your mum friendly with any blacksmiths? Do you wear the anvil to this very day as a lucky charm? Were the man's test results negative? But, nevertheless, I can see that you will become a valued member of this Forum.

Howard? Do you want to come in at this point?

[Gordon Moore]

He will, just give him a moment to pull his pants up. (smirk)

[howard male]

Gordon N wrote -

Howard? Do you want to come in at this point?

I'm just trying not to have the last word. But you put me in a very difficult position...

[Gordon Moore]

But you put me in a very difficult position...

!

[CantSleepClownsWillGetMe]

Gordon Neill remarked

There are a few loose ends. Was your father a blacksmith? Or was your mum friendly with any blacksmiths? Do you wear the anvil to this very day as a lucky charm?

No. There are no Smiths in my family (or should that be 'within' my family?). Of that I am certain.

The anvil was eaten by a New Age Traveller. Or, perhaps, Michael Jackson. I forget. Something to do with pacental rejuvenation.

Sadly, the patient (male) had to extend his stay in hospital after the reported examination. He had been admitted after a rather sordid incident involving his male member and the disc drive of his PC. Upon admission to hospital, said member had to be completely encased in plaster.

However, as he was being examined by the nurse, his cast split asunder. For a brief moment, she thought it had melted. But then, being the professional that she was, she quickly applied a tourniquet to the affected area. She then removed the lit cigarette from her patient's mouth.

Streatham General Hospital must surely be commended for this nurse's actions. Wouldn't you agree?

Howard?

[NormanD]

I may be unfairly judging this forthcoming album on the basis of one over-zealous press release (sorry, I can't quote a source as I got this from another site), but your observations on this would be interesting. Maybe I'm just a Philistine but, c'mon boys......it's only rock 'n' roll!

Steve Nieve - Welcome to the Voice
Feat. Sting, Elvis Costello, Robert Wyatt

Composed by longtime Elvis Costello keyboardist Steve Nieve and set to a surreally episodic, multilingual libretto by his life partner, Muriel Teodori, this singspiel/dramatic oratorio describes the obsessive passion of an opera-loving steelworker of Greek extraction (Sting) for a diva (Barbara Bonney), a not-unheard-of situation in either real or reel life. Although Dionysos (the hero) seems to hover on the edge of becoming a textbook psycho-stalker (the cover photo of a hard-hat kissing his saw does little to dispel this impression), all ends well, if unbelievably. Blue-collar boy not only narrowly avoids incarceration (Elvis Costello appears as a police officer) but even gets next to the ermine-collar girl. Scored for string quartet with piano and reed improvisations, the work's avowed raison d'être was to allow voices from various backgrounds, classically trained and otherwise, to encounter one another on a level playing field. This might have been more successful if the singers were better matched in terms of texture and production. As it is, the sopranos soar effortlessly, allowing the music to do the work, while the male pop stars take the opposite approach, working up a sweat at the drop of an emotion. Musically, despite arresting juxtapositions between conventionally melodic power-pop and 20th-century atonality--to say nothing of a blazing concluding "yes" sung by all involved--the composition comes across more as a study in parallels rather than a unifying force. But even so, the point does get across, and so ambitious and heartfelt an adventure is always worth checking out.

[howard male]

Yes, it's certainly an extremely constipated review, Norman, but I think he/she sort of liked the album. But even if I could understand what the reviewer is trying to say ('study in parallels'?) I couldn't comment on its accuracy as this CD hasn't come my way and I don't imagine will.

[Con Murphy]

Yes, it's certainly an extremely constipated review, Norman, but I think he/she sort of liked the album.

Not so sure myself - I think the review can be summarised as:

An interesting if ultimately implausible idea (this singspiel/dramatic oratorio describes the obsessive passion of an opera-loving steelworker of Greek extraction blah de blah but he even gets next to the ermine-collar girl.) where the classical performers show up the well-meaning but crap rockers (Scored for string quartet with piano and reed improvisations, the work's avowed raison d'être was to allow voices from various backgrounds blah de blah the sopranos soar effortlessly blah while the male pop stars blah blah working up a sweat at the drop of an emotion.) It doesn't work by any objective measure (Musically, despite arresting juxtapositions blah blah blah comes across more as a study in parallels rather than a unifying force.) but you should buy it anyway so that you can be as pretentious as me. (blah blah, the point does get across blah de blah so ambitious and heartfelt an adventure is always worth checking out. )

[Con Murphy]

PS I want my Elvis back.