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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:19 pm
by NormanD
howard male wrote:...for me the most revealing moment was the scene on the street corner were our hero was taking childlike (in the best sense of the word) pleasure in verbally shuffling words he'd just read on street-signs or newspaper headlines, to increasingly bazaar and surreal affect. It was the happiest we saw him in the entire film, and that, to me, says everything about who the real Bob Dylan is.
I'll just comment on this bit of your post, Howard, as I think it touches on one aspect of the film that's hardly been mentioned: drugs.
In that staged scene, Slim Zim was clearly stoned, a sucker to the dubious (old joke) pleasures of amphetamines, which were the drug of choice around this time. He was just being a motor mouth, nothing more or less. It was funny, for sure, and a nice bit of showing off for Pennebaker's film crew, and inspired as only he could be. But it wasn't anything special. In fact, from my experience of being around people in that particular state, they often get irritating and boring quite quickly.

The impact, or influence, of intoxicants (mind-changing drugs, alcopops, religion, etc) on the creative process is an interesting subject, maybe worthy of another thread if anyone else is interested enough in it. I'm sure some performers have written their best work when being stoned was a way of life for them, and their post-recovery catalogue has never quite been so good.

Norman

PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:29 pm
by howard male
I did guess he was on something Norman, but that doesn't detract from what he chose to do on that something. He chose to play with words. Someone else might have chosen to have sex, ride a motorbike, get in a fight, be arrogant, or as you say, just be very boring. As we all know, many truths about a person can come out when they are intoxicated and their guard is down. So I still think it was a telling moment, staged or not.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:19 pm
by NormanD
howard male wrote:He...might have chosen to have sex
He was, to the minds of his potential viewers
ride a motorbike
He did, a few months later, and look what happened
get in a fight, be arrogant, or as you say, just be very boring
Or throw up in the back of a limo in the company of John Lennon. No wonder you can only see the film as a bootleg; now, I'm not sure I really want to.

The most telling moments, for me, were the words of some of the commentators / witnesses, especially Liam Clancy's description of him as a shape shifter: his ability to move and change and take on the form of others.

All it told me about him was that he was speeding. Stoned ramblings may be entertaining, and often are, but they usually put me no closer to uderstanding or knowing a person. It rarely works for those I know well and feel close to, and it certainly doesn't for someone I think I know, just because his words, voice and face have become so familiar.

Norman

PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:37 pm
by howard male
Norman wrote -

...especially Liam Clancy's description of him as a shape shifter: his ability to move and change and take on the form of others.


A quality he has in common with Jagger and Bowie, who can also be who they need to be at any given time.