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Re: How To Vote?

PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:33 pm
by NickH
AndyM wrote:
Tory cuts aren't behind the Green Party's pro-cyclist jihad against cars

I'm in favour of cutting the speed of cars to 20mph in the centre of Brighton. Green cycle policies make sense to me too. Sniping between Labour and the Greens in Brighton is rather tedious, when we should be concentrating on the Tory enemy.

NormanD wrote:
the national party of the left seems more concerned about kicking others out

That immigration pledge made me wince when I saw it on the Labour pledge card too. There are better pledges which could have been listed on the card and plastered on campaign mugs. Labour should be more confident about the positive things they have to say. I would have preferred a slogan related to the 'predatory capitalism' theme Ed raised when he became Labour leader, but maybe that was considered too contentious for this election campaign.

Re: How To Vote?

PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:37 pm
by AndyM
NickH wrote: Sniping between Labour and the Greens in Brighton is rather tedious, when we should be concentrating on the Tory enemy.



But that would only come to pass if Labour didn't stand in Pavilion and the Greens didn't stand in Kemp Town. Never gonna happen.

Re: How To Vote?

PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:44 pm
by alister prince
Very true, old bean. But don't forget Etoni is a charity and so part of the third sector. God, does that make Cameron a charity worker???
Aly

Re: How To Vote?

PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:46 pm
by Adam Blake
NickH wrote:I would have preferred a slogan related to the 'predatory capitalism' theme Ed raised when he became Labour leader, but maybe that was considered too contentious for this election campaign.


Yep. I daresay. The squirming to avoid upsetting the 1% is so nauseating. I wish people would say, when accused by the likes of Boris "Fluffy" Johnson of being anti-business, that actually they are not so much anti-business as pro-community.

Re: How To Vote?

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:02 am
by Garth Cartwright
Who watched the debate? It wasn't bad telly for the first half, just watching these different personalities try to find their footing, get their well rehearsed points across, verbally batter the other leaders. I'm amazed the public still hold Cameron in such high regard (media today says he and Milliband both got 21%) as he appeared shifty, sweaty and rather unsettled (to me). Ed could have been a lot worse - he hammered home how Labour would save the NHS over and over and made Cameron twitch. The best thing about Ed is that he is not David - imagine having that swarmy New Labour toad as leader, you can imagine Mandelson pulling the strings!

Caroline Lucas must be regretting ever giving up being Green leader as the Aussie woman is useless. She didn't even seem interested in putting forth an environmental agenda, instead sounding like someone who reads the Guardian on the bus and wants to quote a few of the op-eds. Farage, to me, was the most effective of all the leaders as he simply hammered home the same few vote-winning points: leave the EU, stop mass immigration, stop NHS "tourism". I was surprised the others didn't give him a harder time over UKIP's worship of bankers and links with far right groups in the EU. If I was thinking of voting UKIP - which I'm not - he would have convinced me. I never realised there was a serious Welsh party, thought Wales was diehard Labour territory. She was OK but irrelevant. As for Sturgeon, yes, she was effective, spoke well, made good points. But she was given an easy ride by everyone but Farrage - I dislike nationalists and Scottish nationalism strikes me as foolish and unnecessarily divisive. Oh, there was also Nick Clegg but he was imminently forgettable (as ever).

More important than the debate was the 103 business "leaders" who signed the pro-Tory letter in the Torygraph. What a bunch of scumbags, tax dodgers and misanthropes. That, more than anything else, convinced me a change of govt is extremely important.

Re: How To Vote?

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:57 pm
by alister prince
Garth, I agree.with you about 'nationalists', I only saw the news coverage of the 'debate'. What struck me was that there didn't seem to any debate, just repetitious statements of policy, or putting down of the Tories/labour. Following the business leaders letter In the telegraph (surprise, surprise at who wrote and published it), a group of macro-economists has come out and said the opposite. Austerity has been disasterous for the economy. Now where has that been reported, an expert opinion by people without vested interests?!
Aly

Re: How To Vote?

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:36 pm
by MartinOwen
I live in a marginal which since 1970 has had Tory, Labour and Plaidd Cymru MPs (before that we had Megan Lloyd George). The incumbent, Albert Owen (no realtion), is a local working class Labour MP who seems to have no national profile but is well liked. In the Assembly, the constituency returns a Plaidd AM.

I joined Plaidd Cymru to vote to have Leanne Wood as leader - there are some very good women in the party - but I have also donated to Albert's campaign. I suppose I support Plaidd in for the national assembly and local government and Albert gets my personal support for Westminster. He is a good constituency worker and a decent human being. I hold no truck for the "professional" politicians.

Plaidd's policies are well tuned to the needs of the working class in Wales - although I disagree with the opposition to a new nuclear power station on the island.

Re: How To Vote?

PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 1:29 am
by NickH
Garth wrote:
best thing about Ed is that he is not David

No New Labour baggage with Ed, which is why he was absolutely the best Miliband to lead the party after the 2010 election defeat.

I watched all two hours of last night's ITV leaders' debate and was surprised at how riveting the debate was. Cameron had been advised not to get involved in scraps with any of the other leaders, but just came across as unengaged and aloof. Ed was very good on Tory NHS cuts and Cameron's endorsement of discredited rightwing 'trickle down' economic theory and zero-hour contracts.

Nicola Sturgeon seems to be just as effective a job as previous SNP leader Alex Salmond. She was very good at articulating the anti-austerity alternative to the Tories. If a hung parliament is the result of the general election, a loose arrangement between Labour and the SNP after would be a great way to keep out the Tories whilst pursuing progressive policies.

Some good contributions from Green leader Natalie Bennett. She deserves credit for the recent 'Green surge' support for policies which often seem more radical than Labour (pledges on railway renationalisation and a living wage particularly welcome). Plaidd Cymru's Leanne Wood impressed too. She had some great responses to odious xenophobic Farage.

...the 103 business "leaders" who signed the pro-Tory letter in the Torygraph. What a bunch of scumbags, tax dodgers and misanthropes.

Disappointing to see the Torygraph letter feature as the lead item on the BBC's morning news during the week without mentioning that the letter had been organsied by devious Tory Chancellor Osborne and various fat cat Tory donors. The Torygraph's 'Miliband flops' front page story today claimed the Labour leader had come fourth in straw polls after the leaders' debate. This is a complete fabrication, as all polls showed Ed either first or equal with Cameron. There has been some good music journalism in the Torygraph, but its politics stink. Not surprising that principled political editor Peter Oborne resigned from the paper recently, following their HSBC cover-up.

Re: How To Vote?

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2015 10:21 pm
by Gordon Neill
I've found this to be the flattest, most uninspiring election ever. Maybe it's my age, maybe it's the lack of genuine choice, honesty, leadership, or competent media coverage. The right to vote was hard-fought. But we live in a country where we have now, quietly and largely unnoticed, become disenfranchised. We are still able to tick boxes, but every box is the same. There is only one box. Which one will you tick? Choose a box, any box. It doesn't matter. Whatever you choose, don't think outside The Box. For as long as I remember, the choice was between Tweedledum and Tweedledee. Now it's Tweedledee or Tweedledee. Who will be better at cuts? Who will have the best stunt - triple locks, red lines, or lumps of rock? Who will cuddle the most appealing animal? Surely only a politician, reporter or moron could care?

Despite this, I have no doubt who I'll be voting for. In perhaps one of the more surprising forum responses....I'll be voting for my son.

Yes, Jack Neill is a candidate in Gordon Brown's old constituency, Kirkcaldy & Cowdenbeath. Even more surprisingly (at least to me) is that he is a UKIP candidate.

He's not 'nasty'. He certainly isn't racist. He doesn't come from a family of right-wingers. Or,indeed, candidates. Or, indeed, voters. I gave up years ago. To coin an old phrase, no matter who I vote for, it's the government that always gets in. So I struggle to understand where the UKIP thing has come from. My skepticism about mainstream politics might have infected him. Last year's independence referundum was definitely a factor. We have a strong family tradition of saying 'no' to politicians. Whatever question they ask. Just say no to drugs. Just say no to strangers. Just say no to lying, devious, self-serving, from-another-planet politicians.

But I think UKIP has an appeal for many people. You may well disagree with their policies. But I don't think there's any doubt that they believe what they say. And, on an issue like immigration, they seem to connect with a lot of voters who have stopped listening to the mainstream mumble. That's the trouble with disenfranchising people. They'll just go and vote for something different. The more the mainstream races to the middle, the more the edges will curl up. UKIP are a throwback to the days of conviction politics, as opposed to marketing exercises. Pepsi or Coca Cola? Or a pint of apparently real ale?

I'm staying true to my faith in athiesm. But blood is thicker than water. It would be embarrassing if my son got no votes. And I mean no votes. Last week, he bumped into the Labour candidate while campaigning, and really liked the guy. I worry that he might actually vote Labour by mistake. So I'll be making sure there's no whitewash. He'll at least get one vote. If I can be bothered.......

Re: How To Vote?

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2015 11:49 pm
by Adam Blake
What a shame he's not standing for the Greens. Then I could say, "Go, Gordon's son!"

Unfortunately, many of the UKIP candidates are racists.

I quite agree with you, though, Gordon, about disenfranchisement. The political process is in meltdown. It seems very unlikely that any party will get a clear mandate to govern. Thus we will get some kind of compromise coalition and maybe we'll be back at the polling stations by the end of the year. As far as I can see, this is because the electorate knows instinctively that Whitehall no longer represents the interests of the general populace. It doesn't matter how worthy the intentions are of individual politicians. In order to secure any real power, a government minister has to follow the agenda of the corporate oligarchy. This is unsustainable. And the cracks are showing.

Re: How To Vote?

PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 8:11 am
by NormanD
I can't add any more to what I said earlier here. I will be voting, for one of the two independent socialist/left candidates standing here. I'm glad I have that option, or even the Greens. Otherwise, I'd go down there and spoil my ballot paper.

I remember in one local election a while back I ended up having a row with the polling officer who said that I had to sign to receive my ballot paper. The council had introduced a 'trial scheme' requiring this, apparently to prevent fraud. There'd been no prior information about this, or discussion, and the poll clerk couldn't tell me the relevant legislation that was enabling this. So I didn't vote then.

The main thing that's irritating me at the moment about this whole election is the high level of guilt that's being laid on people on Facebook. I can understand people wanting to vote Labour because of their vague reformist / just-about-better-than-the-Tories agenda. But why do I HAVE TO as the only conceivable choice? Why is a protest vote a 'wasted' vote? Why are we urged to 'fight later' rather than do so now? Why should you not try to encourage an alternative to Labour? If not now, when?

Leftists used to say: fight to make Labour keep their promises! Now, we should say: fight to make sure they don't.

Gordon: that's some confession to make about your lad. I'm quite shocked, I have to say. I didn't even know you had a son that old. With your parental love, and good example, he may not turn further to the right as he gets older.

Re: How To Vote?

PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 6:59 pm
by will vine
I'd like to vote for a man in a shabby pinstripe suit who looks older than me, unlikely as that now is. It's just, well.......these bloody stage managed kids!
Ah well, by this time tomorrow it'll be all over........if only..............if only.

Re: How To Vote?

PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 8:51 pm
by Jamie Renton
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHNJhJT ... e=youtu.be

I voted Green, the closest thing to an alternative in bourgeois Barnet. They don't stand a chance of getting in, but it's good for the soul.

Meanwhile, in an alternative universe, Milliband becomes PM and makes this speech: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0-toQqNjkA

As Josie Long said when I saw her live "I know that's not going to happen. But wouldn't it be great if it did!"

Re: How To Vote?

PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 8:55 pm
by Adam Blake
Jamie Renton wrote:I voted Green, the closest thing to an alternative in bourgeois Barnet. They don't stand a chance of getting in, but it's good for the soul.



Likewise. Living in the safest Tory seat in the UK as I do. Also the Green candidate is a mate of mine.

Re: How To Vote?

PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 10:16 am
by Kari Salonen
Your elections and their outcome have made it to headlines here too. Partly they are a hot topic, because we also had our parliamentary elections just a couple of weeks ago.

Back in our place and our variety of choices the Centre won, with the Moderate Conservatives coming in second and our local Ukip True Finns securing the third position. These three are going to form the government. Those left of centre or otherwise progressive will be forming the opposition (with the Christian Democrats in tow). Such fun we are going to have...

So: my condolences.