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France: Roma Deportations

PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:03 pm
by Des
Is it just me or is this one of the most frightening actions ever taken by a state in post-war western Europe?

Re: France: Roma Deportations

PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:26 pm
by Rob Hall
I think that the Roma have been getting similar treatment in Italy in recent years, but it's fallen off the radar:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/21/italy.race1
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 272550.ece

But yes, it's a terrible situation and France deserves to be condemned for this action.

Re: France: Roma Deportations

PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:09 am
by jackdaw version
Looks as though both the archbishop of Paris (http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/08/26/roma-france026.html) and the Pope (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/25/world/europe/25briefs-ROMA.html?_r=1) as well as The EU Parliament Group of the Progressive Alliance of Socialists & Democrats (http://jurist.org/paperchase/2010/08/eu-socialists-claim-france-roma-deportations-violate-eu-law.php) agree with you, Des. As do I, although I think much of what went on in the Yugoslavia in the 1990s may possibly have been uglier in terms of sheer numbers and brutality. However, scapegoating one particular ethnic group, as Sarkozy certainly appears to be doing, is never fair.

Thanks for bringing this up — I didn't know about it. But, what can we do?

Re: France: Roma Deportations

PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:16 am
by pirkko
I'm not sure if you should compare this with what happened in Yugoslavia (ethnic cleansing?) in the case when the Roma who are being expelled are citizens of another EU country. It's very much about the freedom of movement of EU citizens, and what are the limitations to the freedom of movement, as set in the 2004 directive, which concerns and regulates all of us EU citizens' movement inside the EU, including the Roma who are EU citizens:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 123:EN:PDF

Sweden has also been expelling Eastern European Roma, I don't know if Finland has done it, but there certainly has been talk about it. Finland has its own Roma minority, I'll have to check what they have been saying about this matter.

It's strange to think that nobody saw this problem coming when pushing for EU enlargement.

I don't have a set opinion on the expulsions yet, I think it is a unique problem.

Re: France: Roma Deportations

PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:06 am
by jackdaw version
pirkko wrote:I'm not sure if you should compare this with what happened in Yugoslavia (ethnic cleansing?) in the case when the Roma who are being expelled are citizens of another EU country. It's very much about the freedom of movement of EU citizens, and what are the limitations to the freedom of movement, as set in the 2004 directive, which concerns and regulates all of us EU citizens' movement inside the EU, including the Roma who are EU citizens:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 123:EN:PDF
[ . . .]

Well, I agree with you as regards the legal small print, but I'm not a big one for nationalism of any kind — and I don't like states mashing up civilians whether they are their own citizens or not. The proto-states of the ex-Yugoslavia sure mashed people up pretty bad. As far as the Rom and their citizenship of the EU, I believe that if capital is free to travel the world (as it effectively is), so should people, citizens or not — and in practice, as reported several times, those Rom who take the money and leave France are likely to be back in about three months anyway 'cos they do indeed have the right to be in France. It's stupid, nasty politics although the implications raise more than the usual amount of concern.

Re: France: Roma Deportations

PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 10:13 pm
by garth cartwright
There were protests outside French embassies across Western Europe today at 1pm due to Sarko's bigotry. I was too jetlagged to make it to West London - will speak to friends tonight and see what kind of turnout there was.

As Neil observed, last summer it was Berlusconi dishing out similar treatment. Sarkozy has just turned it into a political football because his ratings are low - it's working with apparently more than 60% of the French electorate behind him.

Very sad but Pirrko is also correct in observing that it is not a simple black & white issue (like, say, civil rights). Most of the Rom involved are from Romania and have arrived in France with few skills so are not going to be able to join the labour market. Those who desperately want to work will probably find menial jobs but many will be hoping to get state benefits - I say this having worked with the Polish and Romanian Rom communities in London: free housing and income support is a strong attraction. There is, also, a criminal minority who exploit Rom kids to pickpocket/beg and do welfare hustles - a Romanian Rom academic who had addressed the UN on Roma rights was jailed for the latter in London last month. I only met her once and wondered why she was so stressed - now I'm guessing it was a fear that I was there to spy! This minority tarnishes the majority and is who the tabloids focus on.

Unwanted in Romania and unwanted elsewhere - a bad situation. That Bulgaria and Romania were welcomed into the EU when they were not ready economically or as a civil society is astonishing - I'm unsure why this was as both were already in Nato; was it just to exploit the pool of cheap labour?

Economist feature is dry and factual: http://www.economist.com/node/16943841

Re: France: Roma Deportations

PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 10:52 pm
by NormanD
garth cartwright wrote:That Bulgaria and Romania were welcomed into the EU when they were not ready economically or as a civil society is astonishing - I'm unsure why this was as both were already in Nato; was it just to exploit the pool of cheap labour?
In short: yes. Similarly with Poland, which seemed to have a higher level of more skilled/experienced workers in need of employment. It was also used as a ploy to undercut wage levels in the 'west'. The major beneficiaries have, of course, been the bosses who not only have cheap labour, but a disunited / divided workforce following the "British jobs for British workers" (or French) mantra.

France: Roma Deportations

PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 1:44 pm
by Philellinas
Scène désolante de racisme ordinaire en Belgique
Reconduite à la frontière d'un clandestin français par deux policiers flamands . ... le Français avait pourtant fait un effort d'adaptation !
Image

With apologies to non-French speakers...

Re: France: Roma Deportations

PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:45 pm
by Hugh Weldon
Génial!

Mdr, as my French facebook friends say.

Re: France: Roma Deportations

PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:22 am
by Des
natura non facit saltum innit.