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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:01 am
by Jonathan E.
I'm glad to have the contributions of Cet Homme to this forum, whatever the name Cet Homme chooses to use. A bit of French adds some class to the forum, peut-être?

I'm also pleased to hear of any and all projects undertaken by forum participants, musical or non-musical, professional, amateur, or inspired by pure lunacy. To call it "tiresome self-promotion" is, I think, somewhat limited in perspective and lacks understanding of what many of us find very interesting. It seems particularly ironic given that the remark was made by a person I consider to indulge in self-promotion quite frequently and shamelessly — but perhaps that's the point and it was just a joke.

Oh! The blues? Yearr, I get the blues quite often. Can't say I always feel like living much when I get 'em, at least not with folk. Animals, maybe. Trees, maybe. But folk can be so downright disagreeable.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:50 pm
by Jonathan E.
Folks who may wonder about this last para in the post above should know that originally the response was in the "Is there life in blues or folk after all?" topic — and was therefore a lame attempt to move the discussion back to the topic subject.

I still get the blues quite often.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:41 pm
by howard male
Jonathan E Wrote -

To call it "tiresome self-promotion" is, I think, somewhat limited in perspective and lacks understanding of what many of us find very interesting.


It also needs to be remembered that the self-employed have to self-promote, it comes with the territory.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:05 pm
by Charlie
howard male wrote:It also needs to be remembered that the self-employed have to self-promote, it comes with the territory.

It's something that Americans tend to do more naturally than we Brits do. As a result, there are thousands of very talented people who don't have the nerve to present their work confidentally, as much afraid of being seen to be too keen as they are of being turned down. I doubt I would have dared to do what I have done if I had not spent a year in America, absorbing the encouragement that was as much a part of the atmsophere as those puffs of steam coming up through the manholes of New York streets.

Among the contributors here, Jamie Renton is a ceaseless promoter of his events, which is the part of the reason that venue owners are glad to have him on board.

I went to an event on Sunday (unrelated to Jamie) that involved at least thirty people as entertainers, workshop leaders and the like, who outnumbered the audience because it had been so badly advertised. Hard to avoid feeling it was all a bit of a waste of time and energy (although as one of the handful of consumers, I actually enjoyed it!).

Authors in particular must learn that their job does not end with handing a manuscript to the publisher, or even with the first round of interviews that may follow. They must think of ways to keep the ball rolling, to sustain interest over months and even years, as Garth is doing with Princes Among Men, Joe Boyd with White Bicycles and Gordon Moore with his maths textbook.

So if it has taken the publication of his Rough Guide to bring Nigel back into the fold, that's a pretty good outcome. Hands off him - let the man try to make a living.

By the way, I'm sorry this has run into two parallel threads. Not sure what to do about it; they can't physically be joined together.

PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 12:23 pm
by Jamie Renton
Charlie wrote:Among the contributors here, Jamie Renton is a ceaseless promoter of his events, which is the part of the reason that venue owners are glad to have him on board.


Thanks Charlie, but I suspect it's got more to do with the fact that I don't aim or expect to make any money out of putting on gigs, which makes me like the title of Seasick Steve's 1st album ... cheep.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:27 am
by Jonathan E.
Charlie wrote:By the way, I'm sorry this has run into two parallel threads. Not sure what to do about it; they can't physically be joined together.

Schizophrenia rules! It's a good thing.

Seriously, I am very, very pleased always to hear of what others are doing, attempting to do, dreaming about. If we're a community, which I believe we are, we share — it's not some bloody old-fashioned rip-off to let people know what we're up to. If there's a charge, just recognize the fact that there's time and expense and energy and rent that goes into making something happen. Sometimes, one can't cover it all as a charitable contribution to the wider world, however much one might like to. I don't see anybody here raking it in at the outrageous expense of others.

I am constantly amazed at the great work being done by many contributors to this forum. I only wish I was around the corner with the cash in my pocket to pop in and see first-hand what's being achieved. And I'm sure much is being achieved despite temporary downspells and depressions.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:31 am
by Jonathan E.
Charlie wrote:Authors in particular must learn that their job does not end with handing a manuscript to the publisher, or even with the first round of interviews that may follow. They must think of ways to keep the ball rolling, to sustain interest over months and even years, as Garth is doing with Princes Among Men, Joe Boyd with White Bicycles and Gordon Moore with his maths textbook.

Standard advice around here at every writers conference. Not that anyone wants to do it — extra work and one isn't doing one's real joy (note the last letter of that word), writing about whatever it is that turns you on.

And, so he doesn't feel left out or have to do it himself, let me remind you that Howard has a manuscript that he has recently "abandoned," as writers are advised that they may have to consider works that others think are "finished." Here's his notice of it, in case you missed it:
Which reminds me - I'm just getting some copies of my novel 'Etc Etc Amen' printed for promotional purposes, so if any of you religion and music nutters fancy reading a novel in which religion and music feature heavily, now is your chance - just send me a private message, and then send me a donation of a tenner!

It's a proper paperback with a really pretty cover, and it has some thrillingly complementary quotes from Charlie, Jamie Renton, and David Quantick on the back, which I'm hoping will entice agents and publishers to read it.

I hasten to add that this is a no-profit price as each book costs £7.50 to produce, plus delivery to me, and then postage to you. But anyway, I'm not concerned about making a profit at this stage, I just want readers: readers who can tell me what they did and didn't like about the book, and readers who might - hopefully - spread the word. For example, if you know someone in publishing who will help me circumvent what is called the slushpile (the hundreds of manuscripts awaiting attention), which puts a knot in my stomach every time I think about it. Obviously, if you can guarantee you'll get a copy under such an individual's nose, you can have it for free.

I've ended up putting nearly three years work into this novel, and after half a dozen revisions/rewrites I've finally arrived at something which feels right and feels complete. It was bloody hard work, but now comes the really hard part, actually getting the right person to read it, and the book into the bookshops.

Oh yes - as for what all this has to do with CG's quote above. One of my main protagonists is such a character. My in-a-nutshell summing-up of 'Etc Etc Amen' reads:

'Etc Etc Amen' is a love story, a hate story, a murder mystery, a conspiracy thriller, and a satire on organised religion.

'Etc Etc Amen' explores the connections between the anoraked music obsessive and the blinkered religious extremist.

'Etc Etc Amen' has two related narrative strands, one of which takes place in 1970's London, and the other in present-day Marrakech.

Although the novel features a turquoise tripod, some three legged greyhounds, and Jesus's foreskin, 'Etc Etc Amen' is not a sci-fi or fantasy novel.

Good luck to Howard. If anyone has a problem with this kind of promotion, self-promotion, or whatever — well, I can suggest a canal or two you could throw yourself in. Repeatedly, if it doesn't work the first time. Alternatively, you could just write a book about being a miserable git.