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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 1:10 pm
by Chris P
Here is an example of a beautiful bit of Kurdish music by Hozan Fate hijacked for political ends on YouTube. Presumably the sort of thing that upsets the Turkish authorities:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MzF6QJXSSU[/youtube]

Re: Ferhat Tunç - Kurdish Singer

PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:30 pm
by judith
kastamonu wrote:www.muzik-dinle.us/muzik-dinle-ferhat-tunc-can-dostum-video-klip -

I have found the above - not sure if it will work, but it's another beautiful song.


Thank you so much, Kastamonu (Is your name Pauline?). The link worked well. This is absolutely gorgeous. There is a sound to it I am quite taken by and Adam has just told me that the 'violin' is 'untempered' - which I think means the tones are not equidistant as they are in the western scale. To my ear, this is part of the reason why this music is achingly beautiful.

Since your post of Helin a while ago (which I did enjoy very much), I've been listening to Aynur and attempting to find more and I'm looking forward to hearing the music of Ferhat Tunç & Ahmet Kaya and exploring the contents of this thread to greater depth this evening.

Thanks to you too, Chris for adding the videos and information.

(is the name of the instrument which sounds like a violin a Kemenche?)

Re: Ferhat Tunç - Kurdish Singer

PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:11 am
by Philellinas
Judith enquired
(is the name of the instrument which sounds like a violin a Kemenche?)

It is indeed called this in Turkish. There is an equivalent in Greek ("kementzes") but this instrument is more normally referred to as the lyra. The foremost exponent of the Cretan lyra is Ross Daly but there seems to be a great variety of lyras. If you listen to Katerina Papadopoulou's latest album

Image

you can hear Sokratis Sinopoulos perform on half a dozen regional versions of the lyra. They sound similar to my untutored ear but it would probably take a practitioner like Chris Williams at fRoots to explain the differences. Sorry if thread-drift like the haar has moved in...Phil

CRETAN LYRA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 12:41 pm
by Chris P
Further driftage of mistage:

Philellinas wrote: The foremost exponent of the Cretan lyra is Ross Daly


I'd say Psarantonis, but I can see where you're coming from !


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89NgOOeW07g[/youtube]

Kurdish singers

PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:35 pm
by kastamonu
Hi Judith - I am indeed Pauline & thank you so much for your kind comments.

I'm so glad you liked the Ferhat T video clip and music - I believe the main instrument played in it is the saz (or bağlama) - I'm a bit in awe of you all on the Forum as I am completely musically untrained - however I love music so much & Charlie's programme(s) bring light & sunshine into my life on a weekly basis!

Both Ferhat T (what a gorgeous, haunting voice he has) & Ahmet Kaya (now sadly deceased) are/were rather political figures - I try to focus on the music (of which we are so blessed in Turkey with such a wonderful range!) and keep out of the politics - especially as Aydın (who introduced me to Ferhat T when we first met some years ago in N. Cyprus) is now serving his 15 months as a Turkish Kurd in the Turkish Army (in the East!) The music
I hear on the World Service certainly makes the time go quicker!

Incidentally Turkish (Black Sea) music is also generally lovely and often features an instrument which I believe is called the Kemancı (?spelling) - maybe a variation on what you all referred to?

All for now - have so much enjoyed the exchanges in this Forum and I also look forward to listening to more Greek music (thanks to Phil's recent suggestions).

Regards - keep listening! Pauline(Kastamonu)

Re: Kurdish singers

PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:49 am
by judith
kastamonu wrote:
Incidentally Turkish (Black Sea) music is also generally lovely and often features an instrument which I believe is called the Kemancı (?spelling) - maybe a variation on what you all referred to?
)


I think it might be the same instrument.

I hope you feel more and more comfortable to post on the forum, Pauline, for you do have much to contribute even if it does not seem so to yourself. You've certainly increased my appreciation of Kurdish music not to mention the reading foray I've gone on trying to learn more about the people. As far as the musical training and expertise of those who regularly post here, I don't think I'd be too far off in saying that at times the only qualities any of us appear to possess, have any sense about, or keep us in line on this forum are a love of music and Charlie Gillett's work, both of which you have - so there you go.

I've noticed that your posts are usually in this thread and are made in response to Charlie's shows (your comments have been delightful to read and identify with clear over here on the Pacific in a place where in its own way at times feels quite remote from the rest of the world, particularly the greater world of music). Even though you aren't able access YouTube to post the videos of Kurdish music (for example), there are many other threads in which to originate topics and if that's daunting, there are posts to add your thoughts and opinions and knowledge to. Though I am taking it upon myself to encourage you, I doubt I am speaking just for myself in doing so.

And thank you for the mention of the Black Sea music. Since this thread, I've been heavily into YouTube and its succession of Kurdish and other music and artists of Turkey.

Re: Kurdish singers

PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:40 am
by kastamonu
judith wrote:
kastamonu wrote:
Incidentally Turkish (Black Sea) music is also generally lovely and often features an instrument which I believe is called the Kemancı (?spelling) - maybe a variation on what you all referred to?
)


I think it might be the same instrument.

I hope you feel more and more comfortable to post on the forum, Pauline, for you do have much to contribute even if it does not seem so to yourself. You've certainly increased my appreciation of Kurdish music not to mention the reading foray I've gone on trying to learn more about the people. As far as the musical training and expertise of those who regularly post here, I don't think I'd be too far off in saying that at times the only qualities any of us appear to possess, have any sense about, or keep us in line on this forum are a love of music and Charlie Gillett's work, both of which you have - so there you go.

I've noticed that your posts are usually in this thread and are made in response to Charlie's shows (your comments have been delightful to read and identify with clear over here on the Pacific in a place where in its own way at times feels quite remote from the rest of the world, particularly the greater world of music). Even though you aren't able access YouTube to post the videos of Kurdish music (for example), there are many other threads in which to originate topics and if that's daunting, there are posts to add your thoughts and opinions and knowledge to. Though I am taking it upon myself to encourage you, I doubt I am speaking just for myself in doing so.

And thank you for the mention of the Black Sea music. Since this thread, I've been heavily into YouTube and its succession of Kurdish and other music and artists of Turkey.


Very many thanks for your advice and encouragement Judith - much appreciated!

Re: Ferhat Tunç - Kurdish Singer

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 3:29 am
by judith
Philellinas wrote: If you listen to Katerina Papadopoulou's latest album
you can hear Sokratis Sinopoulos perform on half a dozen regional versions of the lyra. They sound similar to my untutored ear but it would probably take a practitioner like Chris Williams at fRoots to explain the differences. Sorry if thread-drift like the haar has moved in...Phil


I'm still working my way around this thread. Thanks to the names given above applied to MySpace (through Sokratis Sinopoulos's site mainly), YouTube, plus sound samples off tulumba.com, the site that sells the "Fate" album (I agree with Chris on this album), I've been listening to many vocalists, lyra and beglama and saz... I'm still trying to learn which names to put with which instruments and people. I haven't accessed Katerina Papdopoulou's latest album, but I have found a track with K. Papadoulou and S. Sinopoulos that is lovely - "Tha Sa Perimenw Na 'Rethis (I Will Wait For You).

Thank you Phil - as for haar-like thread drift (are you a mathematician?), I consider myself one of the worst (best) practitioners here.

P.S. that YouTube track up above - Hozan Fate "Fate El Dalal" is gorgeous. I didn't watch the video. The strummed instrument when it leads into her vocals is really something.

Re:Hozan Fate - Kurdish Singer

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:12 pm
by kastamonu
[.

P.S. that YouTube track up above - Hozan Fate "Fate El Dalal" is gorgeous. I didn't watch the video. The strummed instrument when it leads into her vocals is really something.[/quote]


I have just accessed Hozan Fate (at last!) on Dailymotion - singing Yaramin - so evocative and quite fabulous - I believe sung in a mixture of both Kurdish and Turkish. The background music also quite uplifting....(I can quite feel myself driving across the Mesopotamian plains of E. Turkey - a wonderful experience (in my opininion) if ever there was one...

Re: Ferhat Tunç - Kurdish Singer

PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:30 am
by Philellinas
judith wrote:Thank you Phil - as for haar-like thread drift (are you a mathematician?), I consider myself one of the worst (best) practitioners here.



I'm afraid you're wide of the mark, Judith. I gave up mathematics when I came up against quadratic equations. I spent the last two years at school studying probability theory by playing yahtzee in the back row with a couple of schoolfriends. I'm a language and languages person.
Meanwhile, back at the thread-mill, Katerina Papadopoulou and Sokratis Sinopoulos are married even though it is not evident from their names. Kyrios Sinopoulos would get the job of lyra player in my putative Levantine supergroup.

Re: Ferhat Tunç - Kurdish Singer

PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:30 pm
by Chris P
judith wrote:I've been listening to many vocalists, lyra and beglama and saz... I'm still trying to learn which names to put with which instruments and people
P.S. that YouTube track up above - Hozan Fate "Ay Delal" is gorgeous. I didn't watch the video. The strummed instrument when it leads into her vocals is really something.


Really glad you enjoyed that Judith.
(As I understand it): saz is the broad name for long necked lute-like instruments with strings paired. Many instruments in many countries from Central Asia all the way to eastern Europe could be termed sazes. A baglama is the most popular type of saz in Turkey - it has a solid wood soundboard and 6 (or 7) strings in 3 pairs (maybe + 1). They're quite thin & not too taught in tension, giving a whangy, wavy, loose sound with magical properties. Can be played with a thin bendy pick or by finger plucking. I think 'Ay Delal' has an example of the beautiful hammering-on style of playing, plus some subtle electric baglama. The name 'baglama' is a reference to the knots of the frets which are thin nylon wound around & tied tight. They can be moved & tweaked when setting the instrument up & there are many extra frets between whole tones than our so-called semi-tone divisions in the west. I've been toying around with one for 4 years with quite a lot of enjoyment but no expertise, skill or talent.

So : all baglamas are sazes, not all sazes are baglamas .By the way the 'g' is silent in baglama (as Howard thinks it should be in 'god')

Saz lovers should maybe check out Erkan Ogur's albums with Ismail Demircioglu

Re: Ferhat Tunç - Kurdish Singer

PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:25 am
by Philellinas
Chris Potts wrote: .By the way the 'g' is silent in baglama (as Howard thinks it should be in 'god')

Saz lovers should maybe check out Erkan Ogur's albums with Ismail Demircioglu


...just as the "ğ" in Erkan Oğur is, Chris. Thanks for the details on the saz(lar). Erkan Oğur usually plays the kopuz with Ismail Hakkı Demircioğlu which is another version of the saz. It would be nice to type in Turkish without copying and pasting...

Re: Ferhat Tunç - Kurdish Singer

PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:32 pm
by judith
Chris Potts wrote: A baglama is the most popular type of saz in Turkey - it has a solid wood soundboard and 6 (or 7) strings in 3 pairs (maybe + 1). They're quite thin & not too taught in tension, giving a whangy, wavy, loose sound with magical properties.
I think this is the sound I was trying to describe. I really really like it.

Chris Potts wrote:
So : all baglamas are sazes, not all sazes are baglamas .By the way the 'g' is silent in baglama (as Howard thinks it should be in 'god')

Saz lovers should maybe check out Erkan Ogur's albums with Ismail Demircioglu


Odd's Balamas is a good name. Thanks for that info, Chris. It really does help and I like to visualize, even vaguely, what instrument is playing when I listen to music.

Re: Ferhat Tunç - Kurdish Singer

PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:39 pm
by judith
Philellinas wrote:
...just as the "ğ" in Erkan Oğur is, Chris. Thanks for the details on the saz(lar). Erkan Oğur usually plays the kopuz with Ismail Hakkı Demircioğlu which is another version of the saz. It would be nice to type in Turkish without copying and pasting...


I found an LP with Erkan Ogur and Ismail H. Demircioglu - "Anadolu Besik". (I'd forgotten all about having to copy and paste fonts, it's really time consuming.)

Re: Ferhat Tunç - Kurdish Singer

PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:32 pm
by kastamonu
judith wrote:
Philellinas wrote:
...just as the "ğ" in Erkan Oğur is, Chris. Thanks for the details on the saz(lar). Erkan Oğur usually plays the kopuz with Ismail Hakkı Demircioğlu which is another version of the saz. It would be nice to type in Turkish without copying and pasting...


Thanks to you all for the extra & very interesting information about the Saz and bağlama - I have found it most helpful. Guess I am just lucky to have a Turkish keyboard (at least for this thread.....!)

I think I need a course in how to use/work my way round this Forum though! (Kastamonu)