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Re: Monday 21 Jan

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:17 pm
by That Was Jonathan E. Then
Roger Bradley wrote:Anybody prepared to argue? [ . . .] I too would rather think about Brigitte Bardot than rap.

None of the suggestions will make me change my mind about what I regard as anti-music (and it's specifically the rapping I object to, more than 'hip-hop' in general).

I think what I may have been hoping for in raising this subject was that some other grumpy old voices might have been raised to support me. Am I really the only one on this forum with good taste?

Well, Roger, I can't argue about who would rather think about Brigitte Bardot than rap, but I will say that I find your "good taste" rather narrow, the way you put it rather confrontational, and that the concept of what constitutes music has, I think, expanded since you formed your general opinion about such things as rap as "anti-music." Actually, I suspect the concept of what constitutes music changed long before you formed your opinion. But all that is only my opinion, personal as it is, and like a certain part of the anatomy, not only does everyone have one but everyone is entitled to one.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:18 pm
by Dayna
Has anyone ever heard of Marrs and Pump Up The Volume? I've always loved it, & I found it on You Tube. I'd like to own it, if I could.

Hip Hop

PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 10:25 pm
by whitebeard
Well as far as this linkage of banter has gotten off topic, I would like to shed light to a rather destinationless conversation. Bubble gum pop Hip Hop has thankfully ruined what should have never reached main-stream American Music in the first place. First off no good Hip Hop/rap has come out on a major label in a long ass time. F'in badass Hip Hop has been coming out from the underground (or Independent labels) since the early 90's. Before there was the Dirty South there was the "Yay" Area. Before there was gangster rap there was KRS-ONE and BDP. Before Snoop Dogg there was Short Dogg and Slick Rick. Before Dr. Dre first solo album there was King Tee. Today most of the music I mentioned might sound harsh when giving it a quick listen but Hip Hop/Rap has always been an acquired taste for those who already had musical "taste" during it's creation. As long as I can remember there has been Hip Hop/Rap. My mom bought me a cheap "Cool Rap" compilation from the drug store when I was in first grade. Eric B & Rakim, EPMD, Spice 1, Easy E, and NWA's express yourself were all on that tape. So when people who were never really into Hip Hop/Rap talk about it used to make me laugh. Now it shows me how people like to talk about stuff they don't really know about.

I got more to say but I don't think you want to read it...So Atmosphere's new Album "When Life Give's You Lemon's You Paint That Sh.t Gold" has got a lot a good stuff on it. Like LL used to say, PEACE!

Re: Hip Hop

PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 11:59 pm
by joel
whitebeard wrote:linkage of banter

PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 6:48 pm
by Gordon Moore
Just in case whitebeard was wondering how to take joel's comment, I think he was impressed by the phrase :)

I have no idea how to take rap, but one thing I definitely do know is that any tracks that use "bitch" to refer to women is disgraceful and I won't listen to it, no matter how good the sound. Same with the N word.

PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 12:01 am
by whitebeard
To Each there own Mr. G. Well from what I gathered or at least all the Atmosphere albums I have been "priv" to listen to, none contain your 2 qualms of so called "rap." I recommend starting with Atmosphere's "God Loves Ugly." It's there 3rd Studio LP of which is available on Vinyl or Compact Disc.

Oh by the way, if you like instrumental hip hop (which Mr. G you might like cuz it contains no words at all) Reanimator's new album "The Ugly Truth Instrumentals" is pretty good start to finish. So if you happen to be stuck in the underground and need something new to chew on, give it a try.


PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 9:38 am
by nickwall
There's certainly a lot of unedifying hip hop being made, especially - though not exclusively - on the major labels. At its best though, hip hop is one of the most innovative exciting and challenging musical genres around, with the ability to delight as well as shock through its lyrics. Avoid those artists with 'gangsta' associations, and look out for 'alternative', 'conscious' or 'political' hip hop. I've collected together some of the best intelligent, non-sexist and musically interesting alternative hip hop from around the globe in this list on my music site : ... hop-tracks

PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 2:02 pm
by Gordon Moore
Sorry, I wasn't trying to disparage rap as a genre. I agree it can be very clever and I do like listening to it, but it's not an area that I have explored in any great detail other than the stuff I occasionally hear on the freeview music channels (i.e. uk free to air digital channels). I suspect though that a lot of the things I like are probably hip hop though I don't understand the difference. And as for the language, it doesn't matter what genre it is, or what point it's trying to make, it's not for me. (I do worry about some of the lyrics I hear in world music though, what are they saying, and would a guest be offended?)

edit: Oh I've just been looking at Nick's web link and I now understand rap v hip hop, thanks for that.


PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 8:29 pm
by whitebeard
Wonderful list mR. Nickwall. Taste is relative. Some like the of taste Dahl over Hamburgers, others like sushi while others can only stomach fishsticks. Nick's list is a very well rounded list of Hip Hop/Rap, but it appeals to the taste of Nick. One could argue that some of the music on said list would contain Mr. G's two qualms.

Oh so a little off topic. I'm just curious why Roots Manuva gets no cred from the english on this forum? His voice and style, at times seems to almost allude to something dare I say original. Or is it that by the time I heard some of his music isolated in Northern Cali it was passe in the UK. Please school me on your local champ.


PS. People love to take little bits from everywhere and collect them as there own and say look what I found. It's especially easy today with the down loading of even peoples souls. Nick, if you got the time, post a list of the best Hip Hop/Rap albums that stand the test of time. Cuz I'm willing to farmers bet that some of the songs on yer list you wouldn't like in 10 years. Your list is just brushing the surface (I'm sure you know that) It seems like you just went surfing and your list was the best you could find. I have always been that type of person that enjoyed the b-side on the record. There isn't any b-side to a download so I guess I'm trying to say that though Nick's list is wonderful for those not in the know DON'T JUST STOP THERE.


A couple

PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 9:10 pm
by whitebeard
A Couple of the best Hip Hop Albums from start to finish

Del & Dan - Deltron 3030
Madlib & MF Doom - Madvillian
DJ Shadow - Endtroducing...
Common (Sence) - Resurrection
Buck 65 - Man Overboard
Fugees - The Score
The Pharcyde - Bizarre Ride II
KRS-ONE - Return of the Boom Bap
The GZA/Genious - Liquid Swords
People Under the Stairs - Questions in the Form of an Answer
Aesop Rock - Labor Days
A Tribe Called Quest - Low End Theory
Outkasts - ATliens, Aquemini
DJ Krush - Kakusai
Sixtoo - Duration
Blockhead - Music By Cavelight
Aceyalone - All Balls Don't Bounce, A Book of Human Language

There are others...

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 8:32 am
by Con Murphy
whitebeard wrote:Oh so a little off topic. I'm just curious why Roots Manuva gets no cred from the english on this forum? His voice and style, at times seems to almost allude to something dare I say original. Or is it that by the time I heard some of his music isolated in Northern Cali it was passe in the UK. Please school me on your local champ.

Well, he's just a UK black making UK tracks.

I think some of us said nice things about him here around the time of his last release, but that seems a worryingly long time ago now given the demons he seemed to be fighting at the time. What happened to him I wonder? I think he is an original, and as such quite difficult to get into for many. Verbally, he hasn't got the bounce of a Kanye West or an Eminem, and musically he's darker, denser than your Outkasts and Fiddy Cents. But, I guess that as with Buck 65, when (if) you attune to his dark, dystopian (almost ponderous at times) beats and rhymes, then there's nothing quite like him.

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 7:55 pm
by whitebeard
I find it interesting that the group of 20 somethings I role with would rather have there ear drums ripped out then listen to Kanye or M&M. Unless your in kindergarden Kanye and M&M have been played out since there first albums, if that. Roots Manuva tracks such as "Witness" rock more late night dance sessions than Kanye and I haven't even heard an M&M song since the Slim Shady EP (previous release to the LP version). I'm finding it kinda weird that the UK likes our crap and the US likes yours. Dancing to Hip Hop/Rap is like dancing to polka. It's out dated. If were dancing to Hip Hop/Rap it's the oldies like "Look Out Weekend" by Debbie Deb, or "Gimme Some Juice" by the World Class Wreaking Crew. Most people around here would agree that Hip Hop/Rap isn't for dancing to anymore. It's for listening, bobbing heads, inspiration, pick me up music, or when I want to feel like I could mash trolls into the ground like giant apple presses. We dance to Reggae, or New Grass, West African Traditional, Rumba/Bata/anything from Cuba, Electronic stuff like dubstep. Oh and we love Brazil anything right now.

Does anyone else think Kanye is the worst rapper since Puff Dad? I do.
His beats are cool, but he should have Mos Def rap over 'em again. Instead of listening to Kanye listen to k-os. Start with the track "the Love Song." K-os's last album "Atlantis" is what the new Gnarles Shoulda been.


PS. There isn't anything wrong with a song because it's a little dark.

Re: A couple

PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 6:59 pm
by Gordon Moore
whitebeard wrote:A Couple of the best Hip Hop Albums from start to finish

DJ Shadow - Endtroducing...

No, no way is that hip hop, no way Jose, I've got that, (thanks to a recommendation from the lovely Judith I think) and unless I'm totally misunderstanding! things it's ... just playing around... not my cuppa at all (although bits I do like, or rather get... crumbs I'm old... hehe)

I like the Fugees though, well what I've heard released as singles...

PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 7:04 pm
by Gordon Moore
whitebeard wrote:We dance to Reggae, or New Grass, West African Traditional, Rumba/Bata/anything from Cuba, Electronic stuff like dubstep. Oh and we love Brazil anything right now. .

I was chatting to a couple of youngsters the other day and they mentioned a genre called bagman?? or similar, the context was reggae/dub (see the thread: dark and dubbish). Any ideas what they were talking about?

btw, it's nice to have your input...


PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 8:09 pm
by whitebeard
1. Ahh Mr. G you brought up a point that appears to be on my mind when ever I space out talking to people from So. Cal. Is instrumental hip hop still hip hop? Could it be considered electronic Jazz? The Album Endtroducing... was the first of its kind in a couple ways. The album was make entirely from samples, the first to ever do that and pull it off. It was also, if I'm not mistaken, one of the first hip hop albums that was entirely instrumental. Since then only two albums that I know of that use entirely samples from a sampler or entirely scratched by hand (no drum-machines, live instrumentation, or samplers) Cut Chemists "The Garden" I believe is all samples. D-Styles very dark "Phantazmagoria" is 100% scratches. DJ Q-Bert came close to achieving the same with his earlier album "Wave Twisters" but it contains some drum-machine and samples but mostly is scratching. There is now a sub-genre of instrumental hip hop of which I'm like Ants to sugar. I can't get enough. Here is list of some of the more prolific beat makers making there own albums.
Joe Beats
Rob the Viking
and more and more are popping up like mushrooms after the first rain.

2. It's seems like every time I turn around the English have a new genre of music. Is "Bagman" in the same vain as "Future Dub" or "Dubwise." I do love the dense and heavy dub/reggae. But I prefer the more instrumentally focused dare I say "trippy" stuff.