UK, 1977-83 - who's counting and who counts?

[Dominic]

OK, given that 1983 is the cut off year, the Smiths don't quite make it (although Hand In Glove and This Charming Man did come out in '83).

I saw The Smiths 6 times in 1983. It was the year of Life's A Riot by Billy Bragg and Lean On Me by The Redskins. It was also the year that I graduated and got my first full-time job. Certainly a watershed year.

[Hugh Weldon]

3. Elvis Costello. Watching the Detectives (*)

(*) EC is not listed with the Attractions as it was the Rumour's rhythm section on Detectives, still my favourite Elvis single

Dang me, you're right! I always thought this was the first Elvis Costello & the Attractions release. It was certainly a huge leap forward from My Aim Is True.

No Dominic it was the one I just mentioned on the numbers thread, Less than Zero, bought it in about May 77 after hearing Peel play it just once, Detectives didn't come out until the autumn. How that year is musically etched on my mind!

Also The Jam deserve a bit more credit I think, have a look at this great piece by John Harris:

http://www.johnharris.me.uk/archive.php ... 02001&id=6

I think his point that Weller was the greatest lyricist of all this lot is correct. Also lots of the non-musos I knew at the time really identified with his stuff. I recall being on a coach trip to that dreadful Brussels Euro final of 1985 when one of the scally crowd I was with amazed me by singing the whole of Tube Station at Midnight word for word.

[Rob Hall]

OK, given that 1983 is the cut off year, the Smiths don't quite make it (although Hand In Glove and This Charming Man did come out in '83).

I saw The Smiths 6 times in 1983. It was the year of Life's A Riot by Billy Bragg and Lean On Me by The Redskins. It was also the year that I graduated and got my first full-time job. Certainly a watershed year.

Maybe you're the person to ask then Dominic: what is so special about the Smiths? I'd long since given up paying attention to the charts at that point. I picked up on some things at the time, and have picked up on others since, but the Smiths (and all things Morrisey and Marr) just passed me by. The only thing related to them that I've heard which impressed me was Eddie Reader's cover of "Last Night I Dreamed That Somebody Loved Me", which is wonderful, and I was amazed when I learned that it was written by Morrisey. My abiding impression of Morrisey is on the cover of all the LPs of his that I saw on sale in the Croydon branch of HMV about 10 years ago - it seemed that they couldn't be given away, and it served to reinforce my view of him as a triumph of style over substance.

[Dayna]

Listen to all of us boys arguing about all of those boys!...

I used to like the 2 songs I heard by The Clash back then, in the 80s. I've only known who Manu Chao is for less than a year, & I do think he has much more talent & sexier...

Out of all those in the list that I know of, I'd put them like this.

1. Dire Straits
2.The Clash
3. Pretenders
4.Police

[Con Murphy]

’83 was the year I started work, and I too saw The Smiths a number of times that year (maybe not as many as 6), but for me it was also the year of King Sunny Adé, Go Deh Yaka , Juicy Fruit and Franco. And Swordfishtrombones, of course.

I thought the (early) Smiths were great in concert, tight and humorous, and Morrissey actually seemed quite brave in introducing a touch of theatricality into a very dull, grey indie milieu. These were the days when morose people turned up to hot, sweaty gigs looking windswept-and-uninteresting in long thick overcoats and spiky hair styles, so they were quite a shot in the arm. And they did release some cracking singles – This Charming Man is an all-time classic, and Hand in Glove would also qualify for consideration in this thread (both were released in 1983). The secret? I don’t know, a combination of Morrissey’s dry, ironic Mancunian wit and Marr’s sparkling jingly-jangly guitar playing, probably. I think there was intelligence there early on as well, which appealed to relatively bright self-absorbed nerds between the ages of 16 and 21 (which is where myself and Dominic come in, I would guess :-)).

The odd decent single apart (Shakespear’s Sister, Girlfriend in a Coma, Morrissey’s Suedehead), I do think they lost it pretty quickly (I didn’t like any of their albums – the first one in particular was crushingly disappointing at the time), and Morrissey was quick to reveal himself as a complete prat, so their enduring appeal to people old enough to know better is a bit of a mystery to me – pure nostalgia, maybe?

[Dominic]

Maybe you're the person to ask then Dominic: what is so special about the Smiths?

It would be easy to say that you had to have been there. First time I saw them was supporting The Fall at the Electric Ballroom - I had no idea who they were, so the surprise was complete. Morrissey's presence, his appearance, the flowing shirt, the necklace, the quiff and the flowers, his ridiculous dancing contrasting with Johnny Marr's cool poise and of course his guitar playing. I caught snippets of outrageous lyrics - the falsetto of "I need advice, I need advice, nobody ever looks at me twice" is still extraordinary on record, but hearing it out of the blue the first time just cannot be described.
They became "our band" and we would see the same faces at each show, but as they became more popular and the lads in leather jackets started going, pushing down the front, the moment was lost.

[Des]

I owe the Smiths a great debt of gratitude. I'd all but lost interest in most pop music when I put the debut Smiths album on the turntable and when the first bars of Reel Around the Fountain echoed across the icy wastes of my flat it was as if a beam of sunshine had burst through the clouds.

Don't ask me why the Smiths were and are so important to me - I can't explain it other than the combination of Marr's gorgeous guitar and the haunted vocals of Morrissey had me hooked from the start. I only saw them perform once and they were splendid.

[Dominic]

Don't ask me why the Smiths were and are so important to me...

Oh, ask me why, and I'll spit in your eye
But we cannot cling to the old dreams anymore
No, we cannot cling to those dreams
...
Am I still ill?

[Des]

Great chat-up lines, Dominic.

[CantSleepClownsWillGetMe]

Being a fair few years older than Con and Dominic in '83 (and even now), and therefore qualifying as 'old enough to know better' at the time, I thought The Smiths were pretty dreich (olde Scots worde which translates [roughly] as 'haunting'!) A friend of mine at the time used to do an impressive impersonation of Morissey by taking any song, and singing it slightly flat whilst staring at his shoes. It was uncanny.

Anyway, this is my list:-

Thin Lizzy (Live & Dangerous)
Sex Pistols
The Jam
Ian Dury
Motorhead
Aerosmith
Police
Squeeze

Wot! No Clash?

Nope.

June

[Gordon Neill]

I agree with Con that none of the Smiths albums quite made it, and I agree that Clowns knew someone who could sing flat whilst at the same time looking at his feet. But I'm still young enough to be foolish and think that the Smiths were pretty damn great. Songs such as Half A Person, I Won't Share You, How Soon Is Now?, and Bigmouth Strikes Again were funny, mournfully melodic, and truly... er... haunting.

[Rob Hall]

Yeah, but could you dance to them?

[garth cartwright]

OK, this has sent me on a serious nostalgia binge! Following is a list of tunes - hopefully 45s if memory serves me right - that meant something to me in my teens. Some are extremely obscure. Others huge hits. In NZ we consumed all as UK punk/new wave. Ok, there's OZ and US acts here but all were recording in the UK at the time (I think). Many of these tunes I haven't heard for over 20 years so admittedly they may sound ropey now but i loved 'em back then. Please argue/add.

BEST PUNK/NEW WAVE 45s 77-83

THE ADVERTS – One Chord Wonders/ Gary Gilmore’s Eyes
ALTERNATIVE TV – Action Time Vision
ANTI-NOWHERE LEAGUE – So What/I Hate People
BAD MANNERS – Lip Up Fatty
BAUHAUS – Bela Lugosi’s Dead
THE BIRTHDAY PARTY – Release The Bats
BUZZCOCKS – Orgasm Addict/What Do I Get/Ever Fallen In Love
CHRON GEN - Lies
THE CLASH – White Man/London Calling
COCKNEY REJECTS – Flares & Slippers/Bad Man
ELVIS COSTELLO – Radio Radio/ Chelsea/Detectives
CULTURE CLUB – Hurt Me/Time/Poison Mind/Karma Chameleon
THE CURE – Let’s Go To Bed
THE DAMNED – New Rose/ Neat Neat Neat
IAN DURY – Sex & Drugs/Rhythm Stick
EATER – Thinking Of The USA
EDDIE & THE HOT RODS – Do Anything You Wanna Do
THE FALL – Lie Dream Of Casino Soul/Totally Wired
FLUX OF PINK INDIANS – Tube Disasters
THE FOUR SKINS – One Law For Them
GENERATION X – Ready Steady Go/Dancing With Myself
THE HEARTBREAKERS – Born To Lose/Chinese Rocks
THE JAM – Down In The Tube Station/Going Underground
JAPAN - Ghosts
JOY DIVISION – She’s Lost Control/Atmosphere/Love Will Tear Us Apart
MADNESS – Bed & Breakfast Man/My Girl/Embarassment/House Of Fun
NICK LOWE – Peace Love Understanding/ Cruel To Be Kind
MAGAZINE – Shot By Both Sides
THE MEMBERS – Sound Of the Suburbs/Offshore Banking Business
MOTORHEAD – M’head/Overkill/Ace Of Spades
THE ONLY ONES – Another Girl Another Planet
THE OUTCASTS – Selfconscious Over You
GRAHAM PARKER – Passion Is No Ordinary Word/ Hey Lord, Don’t Ask Me Questions
PENETRATION – Don’t Dictate
PIL – Public Image/Death Disco/This Is Not A Love Song
POLICE – all espec Roxanne/Moon/Bottle/Breath
PRETENDERS – Stop Your Sobbing/Kid/Brass In Pocket/Sleep/Chain Gang
THE RUTS – In A Rut/ Babylon’s Burning/Staring At The Rude Boys/West One
THE SAINTS – I’m Stranded/Lipstick On Your Collar EP/This Perfect Day/Know Your Product
SELECTER – On My Radio
SEX PISTOLS – Anarchy/GSTQ/Pretty Vacant/ My Way
SHAM 69 – Hurry Up Harry/The Kids Are United/Hersham Boys
SIOUXIE & THE BANSHEES – Hong Kong Garden
SLAUGHTER & THE DOGS – Cranked Up Really High/Where Have All The Boot Boys Gone
THE SLITS – Typical Girls/Man Next Door
THE SPECIALS – Gangsters/ Rudie/Sterotype/Ghost Town/The Boiler/Mandela
SPIZZ ENERGIE – Where’s Captain Kirk?
SQUEEZE – lots but espec Cool For Cats/Black Coffee In Bed
STIFF LITTLE FINGERS – Alternative Ulster
THE STRAY CATS – Runaway Boys/Stray Cat Strut/Rock This Town
SWELL MAPS – Build A Car/Midget Submarine
THEATRE OF HATE – Legion/Original Sin
UK SUBS – CID/Tomorrows Girls/Warhead
THE UNDERTONES – Teenage Kicks/My Perfect Cousin
WAH HEAT! – Seven Minutes To Midnight
WRECKLESS ERIC – Whole Wide World
X-RAY SPEX – Germ Free Adolescence

[Gordon Neill]

I can't dance to anything. Er... possibly that's why I like the Smiths.

[Adam Blake]

Yeah, but could you dance to them?

Definitely. Johnny Marr specialised in highly syncopated "pushes" and Joyce and Rourke were surely the most sproingiest rhythm section in Britain at that time. "What Difference Does It Make", "Girl Afraid", "Barbarism Begins At Home" - all intensely danceable, to name but three. "What She Said" is surely the most energetic British POP record of the '80s.

And Des - I couldn't agree with you more. My love of The Smiths defies all logic and reason and is all the fiercer for it. But, oh, how dull Morrissey became without Marr!