UK, 1977-83 - who's counting and who counts?

[Charlie]

How lucky we are at this forum, to have pieces like those from Garth, Con, Nigel W and Howard.

This thread is zig zagging in a wonderfully zany way from backlash to praise, so can I ask, is there anybody except me who put the Clash quite far down the list of the great British bands of the years 1977 through 1983?

1. The Specials. Ghost Town and Free Nelson Mandela outstrip anything anybody else did.
2. The Beat. Mirror in the Bathroom
3. Ian Dury & the Blockheads. What a Waste, Hit Me with Your Rhythm Stick
4. Madness. Our House, Baggy Trousers
5. UB40. King
6. The Police. Roxanne, Every Breath You Take
7. The Fun Boy Three. The Lunatics Are Taking Over the Asylum
8. The Clash. London Calling
9. The Pretenders. Brass in Pocket (I know, Chrissie's American, but they were based here and it felt like they were part of it all
10. The Jam. Eton Rifles

[howard male]

Charlie wrote -

is there anybody except me who put the Clash quite far down the list of the great British bands of the years 1977 through 1983?

Well, when you put it like that, Charlie, it's a whole different ball game.

When it's distilled down to one or two tracks (one track in the Beat's case) the list will always look different. The Clash's 'London Calling' single was never one of my favourites anyway. It was an overblown and histrionic anthem-by-numbers. So, yes, in a list such as this it doesn't measure up to the utterly unique 'Ghost Town' or even the sonically and rhythmically innovative (in a western pop sense) 'Mirror in the Bathroom.'

But the ground the Clash covered while not sounding naff doing so (jazz, dub, country, reggae, ska etc etc) and the songs they conjured from those varied and sometimes unfashionable templates, puts then above all of these singles-only bands. But did they write a song as stately and sexy as 'Brass in Pocket'? Not that I can recall.

[Rob Hall]

What an odd list Charlie. Are these bands that you liked at the time or bands who have subsequently proven themselves by virtue of having hit records? By either standard, I'd have thought that Elvis C & The Attractions and Dire Straits would get a look in. Why the Jam but not the Stranglers?

[Charlie]

I'd have thought that Elvis C & The Attractions and Dire Straits would get a look in. Why the Jam but not the Stranglers?

Yes, you are right, Rob, the list was very much a top of the head thing, and I will amend after all the alternatives have been proposed.

Sultans of Swing, yes, that would have to be there. But I do think that the Jam had better songs than the Stranglers.

I'll be interested to see which two or three songs will be proposed for the Clash.

[Des]

Sadly no mention of Jimmy Pursey ;-)

[Con Murphy]

I agree with Rob about Elvis Costello & the Attractions. I know we all feel compelled to punish EC for letting us down in recent years, but I don’t think you can leave them off the list – Alison, Chelsea, Oliver’s Army, I Can’t Stand Up, the Imperial Bedroom album, Pills and Soap. That’s a pretty good CV, and I think Howard for one will agree about just how great they were in concert as well.

As for the rest of the list - I’d agree that the top four should be ahead of The Clash – I might even put the Jam ahead of them as well, although it is close; White Man (In Hammersmith Palais) and Complete Control vs The Eton Rifles and Going Underground? That one would go to extra-time and penalties in our household.

I think you’re pushing it with UB40, though. A really good first album and some decent singles after that, but is it enough? I can’t get past Sting’s voice, so The Police would be way down the list for me. Fun Boy Three – innovative as far as Brit-pop goes, but it was a fleeting and patchy existence. I loved the first Pretenders album, but agree they should be below The Clash. I didn't like The Stranglers at all (OK, maybe I quite liked Peaches) - they struck me as a prog rock band that got accidentally swept up by the punk movement.

The Beat were far more than one track. Every single one of their singles and vast swathes of their first two LPs were brilliant - from Ranking Full Stop through to Can't Get Used To Losing You, they were a great band.

[Jamie Renton]

the list of the great British bands of the years 1977 through 1983?

Now here's something to warm the cockles of my 40-something heart. Trouble is, Con's said just about everything I wanted to say, only far better than I would have managed.

Having said that, I think a case could be made for the inclusion of The Buzzcocks.

What with all those & my recently being sent a copy of the Stiff Box Set, I'm in danger of getting a bit nostaligic (& as Billy Bragg once said "Nostalgia is the opium of the age")

Jamie

[Nigel w]

At the risk of sounding like the unreconstructed old hippie that I probably am, frankly I'd take Steve Hillage's late '70s output on Virgin over any of that lot, with the possible exceptons of the Specials and Ian Dury & The Blockheads...

But the best British album of the '77-'83 period for me has to be Richard and Linda's Shoot Out The Lights, which proved you could get far more f***ed up raising your kids in a Sufi commune that you ever could sniffing glue on the mean streets of Deptford....

[Con Murphy]

Thanks Jamie. I thought of The Buzzcocks as well, and The Human League, Joy Division, Orange Juice, Dexy Midnight Runners and Siouxsie and the Banshees (Hong Kong Garden, Christine, Happy House - what a triumvirate of great singles). I'm not sure any of them would quite make the 10, though. And I'm not sure Charlie should have started this with so many 40-somethings on the forum!

[Rob Hall]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not pushing for the Stranglers to be included, I was just curious as to why a band like he Jam (or the Police) should get in and not them. But there's another band who should be seriously considered for inclusion, and that's Squeeze - "Take Me I'm Yours", "Cool for Cats", "Tempted", "Black Coffee In Bed", "Labelled With Love" and more. I'd have them in before I'd even consider the Police, for example.

[Rob Hall]

And I'm not sure Charlie should have started this with so many 40-somethings on the forum!

Ahem: some of us are 50 somethings, and not afraid to admit it.

[Dayna]

I think Dire Straits was maybe the best of all those, even though I only heard two of their songs. I can remember how super clear they were when I frist got my new stereo. I've never been able to stay interested in the Police for some reason. I try not to think of my age. I still feel like a 20 something.

[Ian M]

Well, I have to agree with Howard about the Clash, but I also think Garth enjoys being a bit of a provocateur
and perhaps exaggerates his case to evoke the desired effect...

But having said that, it is a cheap shot to equate the merits or otherwise of Sandanista with their use of drugs. The Clash, like nearly all the punk and other bands, were acquainted with drugs from the start. No big deal, but part of the climate then, and now no doubt. Sandanista is sprawling and messy, but what it represents in terms of their ambition, and as a statement of their credo, is far more interesting and admirable than any cold-light-of-day dissection now. For a rock band, their willingness to broaden their outlook, incorporating reggae, dub, and the then new electro and rap scenes, was inspiring. As well as an awareness of early rock'n'roll, rhythm'n'blues, ska etc. It all seemed to come together when they performed that string of dates in New York, and Sandanista represents, for better or worse, that highpoint - a glorious melting pot of those influences and trends, and certainly in the case of black urban sounds they championed, well ahead of the curve. If they didn't quite bring it off on the album I don't mind, I'd rather they had the ambition to try.
Sure there was naivety in there, contradictions and failures. And it was a shame that they outlived their time and reverted to a straight rock band, but they had spirit and a waywardness combined with a real passion for their music and their various causes. And on their night they were a terrific live band.

Don Lett's film captures it pretty well, and I thought the Strummer was excellent, particularly in its structure. Interesting how Joe's background seemed to come out in his enthusiasm for global music (before there was such a thing as 'world' music), although I don't think he would have been impressed by the coffee table aspect of some of it now.

[Adam Blake]

5. UB40. King

The only really good record they ever made in my opinion, but it IS a good one!

[Adam Blake]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not pushing for the Stranglers to be included, I was just curious as to why a band like he Jam (or the Police) should get in and not them. But there's another band who should be seriously considered for inclusion, and that's Squeeze - "Take Me I'm Yours", "Cool for Cats", "Tempted", "Black Coffee In Bed", "Labelled With Love" and more. I'd have them in before I'd even consider the Police, for example.

I saw The Stranglers in 1976. I walked out. I saw them again at a festival in 1978. I couldn't walk out so I went to sleep. I have a cassette from the early 80s with The Police's greatest hits on one side and Squeeze's on the other. I can't listen to The Police anymore but Squeeze sound even better than they did at the time. I think it's because, for all his undoubted talent, Sting has always been more interested in his ego trip, whereas Tilbrook and Difford were always all about the songs. Or maybe they're just better songs.