Electronic Music, It's Made All Over The World

[whitebeard]

Garth and Adam inspired me to start an Electronic Music Thread. Let us talk about everything Electronic music has to offer.

The History of...
What instruments are used - new/old
Artists now and then
What is Electronic Music?
What is music/noise
Anything else I forgot to mention.
EDM = Electronic Dance Music
Are Electronic instruments/Music killing native/folk music
Can Electronic Folk music exist.
Is Turntablism/Hip Hop the next American Folk Music and could Hip Hop/Rap be an Electronic Music (Not counting The Roots and other Hip Hop bands)?

Electronic Music is a very broad genre that is made all over the World, what better place to talk about it.

[Adam Blake]

The origins of electronic music are wonderfully wacky and off the wall. If you can track down any of the compositions of the likes of such inspired mutants as Andres Lewin Richter, Ilhan Mimaroglu, Tevi Avni and Wendy (formerly Walter) Carlos, and of course Pierre Henri then a splendid time is guaranteed for all. These guys all came out of the European Classical tradition and thought nothing of writing pieces with such titles as "Variations for flute and electronic sound" or "Dialogues for piano and two loudspeakers". Our old pal Steve Reich did some pretty far out stuff with microphones swinging on trapezes in and out of feedback loops back in the 50s. Classical music scholars of a certain age will recall viewing the scores to such things as Stockhausen's "Mikrophonie" and being invited to take it all very seriously indeed. Then when Robert Moog invented the moog synthesizer in 1964, well, that really set the cat amongst the pigeons. In popular music I can highly recommend the first album by "The United States Of America" (1968) - a psychedelic band from New York who were probably the first to integrate synthesizers properly. It's a great album too. Psychedelic as hell. Then they were "Silver Apples". OK, but the music's not as good. Then mad old Pierre Henri dubbed unspeakably horrible electronically generated noises all over a generic blues rock album by Spooky Tooth who had decided to, er, update the Catholic Mass somewhat. The resulting album, "Ceremony" (1969), is one of the most genuinely disturbing listening experiences you will ever have. If you can listen to the whole thing on headphones from start to finish in a darkened room I will buy you a large drink. Then you have "White Noise: An Electric Storm" which was to quite a large extent masterminded by the magnificent Delia Darbyshire who was responsible for the original Dr Who theme music (though Ron Grainer took most of the credit). That's a classic of its kind too. Into the 70s I rather lose interest. Wendy Carlos started attempting synthesizer versions of Debussy and Mussourgsky and it all gets a bit boring. Let us not mention ELP (oops I just did).

Hope that's useful.

P.s I should mention that Sun Ra used synthesizers as early as 1970 - maybe earlier - but I don't think he tried to actually integrate them into his music as such. The wonderful German band Faust definitely did, however, and were perhaps the first to deliberately confuse the roles of electronic elements and traditional instruments: putting guitars and pianos through primitive ring modulators and suchlike and playing tunes on electronic and non-musical sources (hoovers, industrial machinery etc.) And all of this with Polydor's money in 1971. Their manager, an accomplished bullshit artist, had convinced Polydor that they were going to be as big as The Beatles and they were given free rein to run amok in the studio with all this stuff which they did. The Beatles (specifically George Martin's and John Lennon's) use of "found sounds" on things like "Tomorrow Never Knows" and "I Am The Walrus" should also be noted. Then there's the theramin... hee hee!

[Jonathan E.]

. . . "White Noise: An Electric Storm" which was to quite a large extent masterminded by the magnificent Delia Darbyshire who was responsible for the original Dr Who theme music (though Ron Grainer took most of the credit). That's a classic of its kind too. . . .

One side of which LP is absolutely fabulous, highly amusing and trippy as all get out. The other side of which is guaranteed bad trip material. Def a classic.

Not to be overly academic about it . . . but what the hell, it seems to me that there's a bit of definition to be undertaken. Like, what is electronic music? A group of musicians several of which might be playing conventional instruments but with one (or more) synthesizer, drum machine or whatever? Music that is entirely synthesized with absolutely no "conventional" instruments? The first would include almost all pop/rock/world/jazz/whatever since sometime in the 1970s (a lot of it anyway), other than the most "pure" — and so would be a fairly worthless definition. But then what would Roxy Music be? Early hip-hop/rap never struck me as being electronic although it sure had elements of what comprises electronic music. Dub would surely be considered electronic although it's almost entirely based on "conventional" music. But, do I think of it as electronic? No. And, you could argue, all recorded music since the age of the transistor (and perhaps before excepting wax cylinders and other acoustic recording techniques) is electronic when heard, even if not when originally played in the studio.

So, what are the parameters of electronic music? At least for the purposes of this discussion.

[Adam Blake]

When Jimi Hendrix clicked on his fuzzface and wah wah and played Delta blues licks through them did that make "Voodoo Chile" electronic music? I think it probably did. More questions than answers here, I fear.

My little potted history of electronic music runs aground in the early 70s. Anybody else care to take up the tale?

[AndyM]

Well there was Chicory Tip......

[NormanD]

I wonder if the popularisation of some earlier electronic music coincided with:
-the wider availability of stereo hifi systems
-the increasing intake of mind-enhancers?

Adam mentions the headphone-listening experience (possibly with...), which sometimes placed the sounds heard on a higher plane. But, as he says, the music was often not very good: Morton Subotnick's often seemed liked attempts to garnish melody from newly developed instruments. And some was dire: I have a dread recollection of something built around astrology signs.

My most interesting performer (composer? experimenter? pioneer?) is Raymond Scott, whose best-known works were played by small jazz combos (think of your favourite Loonie Tunes cartoon, it will likely have his music). He went on to work with Robert Moog, develop Mad Professor instruments, get hired at Motown (though leaving no apparent legacy there) and die forgotten.

Leon Theremin is another pioneer worth mentioning.

The 1980s synthesiser boom is a milestone in the development of pop music, especially for home recording. This may owe as much to the increasing use of MDMA as Rolf Harris's Stylophone. Lots of very catchy riffs however.

And any African music involving synthesisers is often best avoided.

Any recommendations of current / recent music are most welcome.

[Jonathan E.]

When Jimi Hendrix clicked on his fuzzface and wah wah and played Delta blues licks through them did that make "Voodoo Chile" electronic music? I think it probably did. More questions than answers here, I fear. . . .

I'd also been wondering whether Hendrix could be called electronic music. And had about the same answer as Adam. "More questions . . . "

Cheb i Sabbah seems to be widely considered as an exponent of electronic dance music . . . and I suppose he is, although once again there are plenty of acoustic elements to it. By the same token, 1 Giant Leap would be electronic music. Thievery Corporation also come to mind in that general aesthetic.

One thing I've noticed is that there's a certain crusading quality apparent from some lovers of electronic music, like it's morally better in some way than the old-fashioned way of making music by creating vibrations in air without the aid of circuitry. Can't say I go along with that; in fact, at times I feel the exact opposite and as though acoustic music is "real" while electronic is "artificial" and "processed" in the same way as industrial food is inferior to organic. But, call me a fence sitter if you wish, there are also times when I want to hear electronic music specifically because of the way it seems to be so removed from the real world, whatever the real world is.

[Rob Hall]

I'm no expert, but doesn't Terry Riley deserve a mention in this thread?

[Adam Blake]

I'm no expert either, but I am very fond of Terry Riley but his great innovations were not electronic in the sense that Wendy Carlos or Pierre Henri were. "In C" is actually perfectly realisable in a completely acoustic setting. His later experiments with tape loops like "Poppy Nogood" were of course electronic but I don't think he was the first there (although he might have been). Terry's more about spirituality. (someone else can put the "man" at the end of that sentence, if they so desire.)

[Rob Hall]

Were we talking about 'the first' (always difficult to pin down)?

For what it's worth, I put Terry Riley in the same bag with Steve Reich. Walter/Wendy Carlos never struck me as particularly innovative: just re-casting "classical hits" electronically, sort of a techno Mason Williams.

[Adam Blake]

No, you're quite right to bracket Riley with Reich but they actually have quite different agendas and Reich did more with electronics in the very early days (the 50s).

Carlos made his/her fortune in the 60s and 70s with warmed over synthed up Classics but he/she was one of the pioneers. (Lord, I'd forgotten about "Switched On Bach"!!)

I wouldn't want this thread to just be about the origins - we need more input.

Andy: namechecking Chicory Tip is very helpful, I'm sure, but can you tell me why they are held in such high regard in Glamrock circles? (where is Howard when you need him?)

[will vine]

No further insight into what appears a not-too-well-understood / well defined subject other than to second Adam's championing of The United States of America and to wonder if anyone remembers (as I do rather hazily), Tonto's Expanding Headband. And Tomita?

Stop press - I just looked up Tonto's Expanding Headband and Tomita on Wikipedia. Both worth a look. There's too much info. there for me to distil here and make it look like I know stuff.

I guess the synth -pop of Jean-Michel Jarre is also worthy of note here.

[kk]

I guess the synth -pop of Jean-Michel Jarre is also worthy of note here.

now that the thread is back in pop territory, I feel on safer ground to mention this thread where we (Jonathan E. and I, that is) talked about some electronic music from Central and South America

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=17669

[Jonathan E.]

Thanks for the reminder, kk. One of the appealing aspects of electronic music in these days of desktop and laptop production is its internationalness. It's relatively cheap and easy to produce and distribute all over the world, which seem to me like good things on balance and in a way. Me? Fence sit? Never — I call it nuanced. I'll immediately admit to not really being au courrant in any depth on the international scene and often not caring much for the results.

Staying pop, but going back a couple of decades (Already?! Hell, time passes fast!), I adored The Orb in their early days. And I was quite huge on Coldcut and everything to do with Ninja Tune for a while. Mostly, in the case of the Ninja Tune label, because I was trying to understand it all, which ultimately I think I failed to do. Coldcut, of course, were great — no real complaints there — and at least I amassed a large number of Ninja Tune 12" singles in the process.

My nephew, Harry E., much younger than this Mr. E., is a complete nutter over electronic music of the idm/glitch hop persuasion and runs his own label, Lab Beat, etc., which I will now plug, over at http://www.labbeat.com/. So, for those interested in depth, it might be worth the click.* Please note that for reasons of our familial eccentricities he has decided to spell the family name different than the usual way everyone else does.

* And, for those really determined musical explorers, here's the SoundCloud page:

http://soundcloud.com/lab-beat

[will vine]

I have suddenly recalled that an acquaintance of mine is nothing less than a professor and composer of electroacoustic music at De Montford university. If you really want to take your studies into electronic music further Google Simon Emmerson ( and then be sure not to confuse him with the record producer of the same name). He was impressed, when we talked, that I'd heard of Terry Riley but it took only seconds for him to lose me in the technical details of his own work.