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Joni Mitchell: Fashion Muse

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:22 am
by NormanD
"... Hedi Slimane has made her one of the iconic faces of his spring campaign for Saint Laurent, naming her a muse, alongside Kim Gordon, Marilyn Manson, and Marianne Faithfull..."

A new interview with Joni Mitchell, in which she gives away a lot more than you might expect. They all seem to be at it these days (well, she and Dylan, at least) undermining both critics, detractors, disappointed fans, and biographers.

"Fashion? It's alright, Ma, it's only logos". I said that.

http://nymag.com/thecut/2015/02/joni-mi ... BBStr7:XJL

Re: Joni Mitchell: Fashion Muse

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:37 pm
by Adam Blake
NormanD wrote: she and Dylan



are the only ones who really matter....

Re: Joni Mitchell: Fashion Muse

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:37 pm
by Garth Cartwright
Jesus, she really is a nutty narcissist. Her and Bob both whining on. I'll take Merle Haggard and Tom T Hall any day over both of those overrated windbags.

Re: Joni Mitchell: Fashion Muse

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:44 pm
by Jamie Renton
Garth Cartwright wrote:Jesus, she really is a nutty narcissist. Her and Bob both whining on. I'll take Merle Haggard and Tom T Hall any day over both of those overrated windbags.


I think I'll respond to that with a kind of "Reverse Voltaire" Garth: I agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death the right of someone to point out that you didn't really need to say it.

Re: Joni Mitchell: Fashion Muse

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 4:00 pm
by Adam Blake
It's more about the impact they had on the culture at large than the work - although I love the work.

Re: Joni Mitchell: Fashion Muse

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:23 pm
by AndyM
She still gives good interview!

Re: Joni Mitchell: Fashion Muse

PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:10 pm
by Pete Fowler
Garth, take a brief look at the summer 1965 UK charts. Top 10s including Mr Tambourine Man by The Byrds, Help by the Beatles, Satisfaction, Like A Rolling Stone, I Got You, Babe.

Not one of those singles is imaginable without Dylan’s influence. As Lennon said in 1970, ‘Bob changed everything....he made us think of words...’

Think of two years before that. I guess you weren’t here, but lives were changed by The Freewheeling. Parties came to a full stop for an hour or so as people sat there astonished at Masters of War, Hard Rain’s Gonna Fall. We sat in wonder at the maturity of Bob Dylan’s Dream (‘while riding on a train going west...’) – how the hell could a kid of 21 write a song like that?

And these songs, the first iteration, fed, full-on, into the Civil Rights Movement. And these songs, at the trivial level, radicalised me, my friends and millions of others.

I could go on, but, in a way, that’s enough. How Nashville Skyline fed into Gram Parsons and changed yet another route; how his influence led to The Weight.

Sure, he became immensely rich and I don’t know anyone who’s held on to the spirit of the original innovation of youth as the dollars came crashing in. Most don’t even bother, they simply repeat; the odd one goes on and off the rails, usually falling down but just occasionally hitting a belated high spot.

Dylan, though, simply kept on going, kept up his manic touring. Even with a voice burned out – fags, constant singing, near death illnesses and ops – he can still spring the odd surprise. I remember, on a forum so ancient that only university folk could access it, the first days of dial-up modems, saying I’d listened to Time Out Of Mind for hours and hours and, guess what, there were two songs there that could be No 1s, they were that strong. Trying To Get To Heaven and Make You Feel My Love. Well, I was half right.

Yes, I love Merle Haggard and Sing Me Back Home was, with Silver Wings, my very favourite Merle piece. Me, I think Bob’s wrong on him, but that’s all. But, I’m sorry, when you look at songs through their impact and their influence, what ranks first? A Hard Rain’s Gonna Fall or Sing Me Back Home?

The Merle made me weep; the Dylan shook me to the core.

Re: Joni Mitchell: Fashion Muse

PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:43 pm
by Garth Cartwright
Nice post Pete but we come from different eras and hear popular music in different ways - what a pity Charlie is not here to add his oar! The popular music I tend to like owes very little to Dylan - i much prefer Beatles before they assimilated Dylan and like The 4 Seasons and Beach Boys and Tommy James more than I like the Beatles anyway. Blues and soul and country and jazz - which I listen to most of the time - owes nothing to Dylan. Sure, Gram took a few notes but much less than he did from Merle and the Louvins and such. The musicians I listen to the most - Louis Armstrong and Miles Davis, james Brown and Elmore James, Sonny Boy and Irma Thomas (and all that great NO R&B), Booker T and Aretha, the Stones and the Stooges, Hank and Lefty (and Merle and Tom T), and all that great Tex-Mex and Cajun and zydeco and swamp pop etc etc - owes nothing to him. Without Dylan there's still songs with great wit and word play and bizarre imagery (Wang Dang Doodle being preferable to any of his poetic ramblings) and such. Actually, I like to think that without Dylan and the Beatles popular music would have been more to my liking. And without Joni we would have been spared so many overly serious female singer songwriters!

I do like some Bob - even fell for the hype and bought Time Out Of Mind when it came out ("I'm love sick, I'm sick of love" - groan!) - but he is vastly overrated.

Re: Joni Mitchell: Fashion Muse

PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:14 am
by David Flower
Nice post Garth but we come from different eras and look at art in different ways - what a pity Charlie is not here to add his oar! The popular art I tend to like owes very little to Picasso - i much prefer Hockney before he assimilated Picasso and I like Monet and Manet and Sisley more than I like the Picasso anyway. Pre-Raphaelites, impressionism, symbolism and fauvism - which I look at most of the time - owe nothing to Picasso. Sure, Hockney took a few ideas but much less than he did from William Hogarth, Andy Warhol and such. The art I look at the most - Goya, Velazquez, and Constable, Thomas Cole, Blake, Degas (and all those great French riffers), James Whistler, Courbet and those French New England cats, the cave painters of Altamira, Leo and Mickeyangelo (and
G-Otto and The Tuscan crew), and all that Spanish eclecticism and those realist dudes etc etc - owes nothing to Picasso. Without Picasso there's still paintings with cool technique and skill and bizarre imagery (Pollock's drip drops being preferable to any of his scribbly claptrap) and such. Actually, I like to think that without Picasso and Hockney popular art would have been more to my liking. And without that Braque loser we might have been spared so much of that over complicated cubist shit !

I do like some Picasso - even liked that lovey dovey dove for a few weak moments (i'm tough you know), but hey hang on - whoah, am I making much sense here?