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Re: Great Artists and Crappy Records

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 2:31 am
by Rob Hall
All very true Pete, but - by way of contrast - my own experience in respect of 'Hymns To The Silence' was despair at the petulance of a grown man complaining that 'I'm Not Feeling It Any More' and 'Why Must I Always Explain?' I came at it from a different angle than yours.

But this raises an interesting question. All of this stuff about 'the best this' or 'the best that' or the 'great artists producing crappy records' is just a diversion and not, to my mind, to be taken all that seriously.

I hope it's not too tangential to point out that we had a discussion here (I've just looked it up) back in 2006 that involved the establishment of a 'canon' of popular music. It is highly entertaining. For anyone with half a lifetime to spare (it runs over 21 pages) I recommend looking here: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=2342

The question is: why do we continue to go around and around in these loops?

Re: Great Artists and Crappy Records

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:07 am
by AndyM
I don't see why it's so problematic to take the 'done nothing since 1980' line when there are so many dozens, even hundreds, of artists who bear out the truth of it. Of course there are exceptions, since there are exceptions to every rule.

One thing hinted at in Pete's post does point to something significant, however. Underlying all of these debates is the tension/contradiction between the fact that we are (mostly) a gaggle of middle-aged blokes arguing over music originally intended for kids. 'Ageing And Pop' is a complicated and often troubling theme.......

(Before anyone else points it out, I realise that blues & folk & jazz & many of the things that pop/rock mutated into are not simply 'for kids', but you know what I mean.)

Re: Great Artists and Crappy Records

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:50 pm
by Adam Blake
Blimey, it wasn't meant to be taken quite so seriously!

With regard to ageing, Andy, of course I know what you mean but it constantly amazes me how interested many young people are in the music of the 60s and 70s. I know I generally (but not exclusively) teach the children of the bourgeousie, and that they are more inclined (for some reason) to listen to their parents record collections, but still you've got to wonder if maybe that music just IS more engaging. I know I have always thought so but I always felt slightly shifty about it, as though I really ought to make more of an effort with contemporary music. As it is, what floats through my transom in the course of work (Foo Fighters being a good example) rarely makes much of an impression one way or the other, whereas I can (and do!) discuss the minutiae of 40 plus year old music till the cows come home. What surprises and sometimes delights me is that I often seem to find myself discussing it with people under 20.

Re: Great Artists and Crappy Records

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:09 pm
by AndyM
Interesting. A couple of random-ish thoughts in response to that -- kids motivated enough to take serious guitar lessons are going to be inclined to listen to music from periods where some level of instrumental talent was more important than it is now (when computerisation on the one hand and hip-hop on the other mean that learning to play anything is far from a prerequisite for music biz success), and secondly Foo Fighters exemplify the modern equivalent of groups trying to pretend it's still the 70s (cf. Kings of Leon, Coldplay, all those other straightwhitemale dullards).

Re: Great Artists and Crappy Records

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:37 pm
by Adam Blake
AndyM wrote: Foo Fighters exemplify the modern equivalent of groups trying to pretend it's still the 70s (cf. Kings of Leon, Coldplay, all those other straightwhitemale dullards).


Yes, but you're kind of tarring all guitar bands with the same brush there (an easy enough thing to do). The fact is, the 1st world is full of (too many) electric guitars and young people are going to want to play them. When they discover that this involves quite a lot of work, many of them give up and find something else to do, but some of them, a small but significant percentage carry on and get good at it. A small percentage of them go on to form bands and a small percentage of them go on to be successful in the music business. You can accuse them all of being retrograde (go on!) but the fact is people like the noise that electric guitars make. It is one of the few instruments that you can use to take revenge on the world with - hence punk and metal etc - and that will always chime with young people. Even the most superficial exploration of the past will turn up Jimi Hendrix and you don't have to have much of an ear to be able to tell that he is much more exciting than just about anything that has happened on the instrument since. If you are curious, this leads you down the garden path to Cream and Led Zeppelin etc etc etc. That's when you need a patient guiding hand (ahem) to tell you about the Bonzos and the Velvet Underground... (I was being serious up to the last sentence)

Young People & Old Music

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:42 pm
by Jamie Renton
My 24 year old drum n bass-head nephew & his mates have followed the music back to its vintage reggae, ska & soul roots. It's all Toots & the Maytals this & Junior Walker & the Allsatars that with them.

My nephew told his friends that I DJed this kind of music & showed them an online photo of me on the decks by way of illustration. To which his friends said "Oh, we assumed he was black," (my nephew's mixed race) "Actually he looks a bit like Jim Carey!"

Re: Great Artists and Crappy Records

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:49 pm
by Adam Blake
Jamie, you do NOT look like Jim Carrey!

Re: Great Artists and Crappy Records

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:57 pm
by AndyM
After I discovered Jimi Hendrix, almost all 60s/70 guitar-wank sounded so laughably inferior I declined to investigate further, so I've never owned a Cream or Led Zeppelin record in my life. (If you've drunk Premiere Cru Burgundy, who wants Lambrini ?)

Until the instrument was revivified by the Ramones and the solo on the Buzzcocks' 'Boredom' (still my favourite, probably).

Re: Great Artists and Crappy Records

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:57 pm
by Chris P
Image

Re: Great Artists and Crappy Records

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:03 pm
by Jamie Renton
Adam Blake wrote:Jamie, you do NOT look like Jim Carrey!


Thanks Adam. That's the nicest thing anyone's said to me all day.

Re: Great Artists and Crappy Records

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:06 pm
by Adam Blake
You're very welcome, Jamie.

Cream and Led Zep both very, very popular with 14 year old sons of the wealthy, however.

Re: Great Artists and Crappy Records

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:08 pm
by AndyM
Adam Blake wrote:
Cream and Led Zep both very, very popular with 14 year old sons of the wealthy, however.


Further proof that the Great Purge is still needed!

Re: Great Artists and Crappy Records

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:12 pm
by Adam Blake
Hahahaha!! Indeed. The solo on "Boredom" is often taught in my classes. As is the riff to "Pablo Picasso".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc2iLAubras

Re: Great Artists and Crappy Records

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:43 pm
by alister prince
Hey Jamie, put Jim Carey in a black tee shirt and on a dark night, with my eyes...
Aly

Re: Great Artists and Crappy Records

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:47 pm
by Jamie Renton
alister prince wrote:Hey Jamie, put Jim Carey in a black tee shirt and on a dark night, with my eyes...
Aly


Unfortunately (and in spite of Adam's words to the contrary) looking at the photo Chris posted, I can sort of see a very vague superficial resemblance.

:(