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Re: The Caravelles: The Last One To Know

PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 12:13 pm
by NormanD
Mais non! C'était Charlotte Corday, pas Cordet.

Re: The Caravelles: The Last One To Know

PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 1:37 pm
by Paul S
Never thought I'd see the Caravelles on this board.
I can remember You Don't Have To Be a Baby on TOTP.
That was probably just after the period when, if you were a 'fan' of a pop star, you had to send off for mail order monochrome postcard pictures via Melody maker (then all removed from the bedroom wall on the arrival of my Beatles wallpaper, now £140/roll on Ebay).
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Full-Roll-and ... 1295789330
I had one of Helen Shapiro and another of Hayley Mills, who formed the following duo with herself:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxtyAC59AeE
Even bought the Decca single as well. How innocent it was then.
Oh, Haley...completely ignored me when I once saw her in Bentalls, Kingston in the early 80's. Shattered dreams.

Re: The Caravelles: The Last One To Know

PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 3:55 pm
by Adam Blake
Thanks for that, Paul.

The 'B' side of the Kinks 1st single, and Ray Davies's first published song, was a tale of a man being overwhelmed by a sexually voracious female. It's just past our cut-off point, perhaps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a88DBoZu5AY

Re: The Caravelles: The Last One To Know

PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 5:56 pm
by Paul S
Now steady on, Adam.
i hope you're not hinting that had Hayley ever dropped in that she'd behave in such a fashion?
Our 60's pop girls are to be worshipped and stories like that apocryphal Petula Clark/SeanConnery event should not blemish our memories.

I actually spent some hours in my bedroom beating (along with - not off) to that very tune amongst others of the era. I'd bought a rubber drum pad on a wooden wedge block from Bill Greenalgh's Music Shop in Exeter and nicked a pair of dad's drumsticks.
Mick Avory had some great fills to learn from.

Re: The Caravelles: The Last One To Know

PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 6:04 pm
by Pete Fowler
My first real girl friend bought me that Caravelles single in '63....the youtube clip is certainly later, the girls have discovered Mary Quant (wasn't that Mod/60s rule odd....if a girl wore a short skirt is was absolutely naff to wear high heels....indeed, high heels were from the Shrimpton generation, all washed up) and their make up wouldn't have been seen in '63...think of Helen Shapiro..this was all before the second Brit boom generation hit the screens, the Kinks, the Who and the Small Faces...

On Adam's question on the pre-Beatles and the 62-63 period, I think most of us who were record nutters bought pretty well exclusively American...Motown was around by this time, and, of course, soul and the R&B of Chuck and Bo. What was so shocking to someone like me about the Beatles and the Stones was that they could 'do it' and do it so convincingly....I might spit in disgust at the sheer effrontery of some white kid from Liverpool singing 'Anna' and 'Your Really Got A Hold On Me', but in my darker moments, alone in my room, with Teen and Twenty Disc Club on Luxembourg ('and here's an actual note, guys and gals ' - yes it was Saville - from Member Number 115321, Elvis Presley'.....how in hell's name do I remember that?), I realised something wonderful was happening.

In that earlier period, 'acceptable' Brits were rare....the guitar player with Johnny Kidd and the Pirates, Dickie Pride singing Gene Vincent songs, Roy Young pretending (very well) to be Little Richard, Lonnie Donegan (but in a freaky kind of way, a one off, an aberration)....

Re: The Caravelles: The Last One To Know

PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 7:17 pm
by Adam Blake
Pete Fowler wrote:On Adam's question on the pre-Beatles and the 62-63 period,


It's not so much pre-Beatles as the moment before Beatlemania began. "Love Me Do" had flopped, "Please Please Me" was a hit, "From Me To You" was a bigger hit, "She Loves You" was a monster and "I Want To Hold Your Hand" a world beater. Somewhere in there is a moment where something changed quite deep in the culture. Or am I imagining it?

The Stones were definitely post-change, The Kinks were always sui generis, Cliff and the Shadows were pre-change, Joe Meek's productions - however brilliant - were still in black and white. I dunno, maybe I'm just chasing ghosts for the hell of it, trying to remember when I first became aware of pop music.

Re: The Caravelles: The Last One To Know

PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 12:22 am
by john poole
This self-written EP track by the Caravelles is rather nice, I think.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vYOBN3YpDw

At the beginning of 1967 (not 1965 as it says on YT) with one replacement Caravelle, they covered a US folk-rock release by the Restless Feelin's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3RZh-kq83o

1963 was exciting, but still b&w in my memory; - the year of Beatlemania, with the Stones giving a glimpse of things to come towards the end of the year (with a Lennon/McCartney song of course).

Re: The Caravelles: The Last One To Know

PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 2:57 pm
by Adam Blake
That's lovely! Not that heard that one before. Thanks. Not so keen on the second track but hey, half the band had left by then. (Musical differences? Drug problems? Getting married and having babies? I think we should be told.)

Re: The Caravelles: The Last One To Know

PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 7:01 am
by uiwangmike
Adam Blake wrote: "Love Me Do" had flopped, "Please Please Me" was a hit, "From Me To You" was a bigger hit, "She Loves You" was a monster and "I Want To Hold Your Hand" a world beater. Somewhere in there is a moment where something changed quite deep in the culture. Or am I imagining it?

If I remember right, don't think anyone at the time thought Love Me Do was a flop. It was the first record by a group which neither I nor any of My Eel Pie Island-going schoolmates had heard of, and reached the Top 20 with not much radio play or TV exposure.

Re: The Caravelles: The Last One To Know

PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 10:48 am
by NormanD
uiwangmike wrote:If I remember right, don't think anyone at the time thought Love Me Do was a flop. It was the first record by a group which neither I nor any of My Eel Pie Island-going schoolmates had heard of, and reached the Top 20 with not much radio play or TV exposure.
It was an outsider that came along out of who knew where. There was no idea at all that it would be an establishment changer. For my part, I liked it because I thought it was an American record, a bit like those rhythm and blues tracks I was wanting to hear, and occasionally could when the radio reception allowed.

Meanwhile, covering all three periods - pre-beat, transition, and then The Beat - Phil Spector was knocking things for six, consigning most everything else (at least for me) to the category of Light Entertainment. I tapped my foot, but it didn't stir my guts. Bye bye Caravelles.

Re: The Caravelles: The Last One To Know

PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 4:08 pm
by davidt
Not quite "bye, bye". You Don't Have To Be A Baby turned up on a compilation, one of only 4 LPs I could afford to buy in 1963: "Thank Your Lucky Stars Vol 2". From there it burned itself into my young mind.

Some lesser known beat gems on here too:
By the way. The Big Three
That's What I Want. The Marauders.

plus a new band for me:
Come On. The Rolling Stones.

This being a Decca release, no Beatles. :-(

David

Re: The Caravelles: The Last One To Know

PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 5:03 pm
by Pete Fowler
Adam, I get your question....I'd go for August, 1963, when Ready Steady Go began. This programme, especially since it featured Cathy McGowan so strongly from the off, was a complete step change from previous TV pop stuff. This, to me, was colour, even though it was four years before BBC2 began to broadcast in that way.

There is a geographical problem: this was London, and, as a fresher at the LSE at the very time, it was wonderful to be in a building right next to where RSG was being filmed; and the LSE library was used to 'hide' various stars avoiding the kids on the pavement. I remember reading a book and seeing John Lennon walk through the hushed environment.

Most of the country was still very monochrome, though Liverpool, with its well-known eccentricities and links to the USA, was, as it still is, a world apart. But most northern towns were still down there with John Leyton and Eden Kane.

The explosion of colour, in the year after this, was dominated by London, London suburbs, London art schools. Significantly, the Beatles moved there; and they, with the Stones established, and the flurry of soul and R&B stars coming over to play at clubs like Klooks Kleek, acted as the catalyst for the outburst of London suburban groups - the Who, the Kinks, the Small Faces, the Yardbirds, Downliners Sect, the Pretty Things.

These became not just colour; but technicolour.

Re: The Caravelles: The Last One To Know

PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 7:21 pm
by john poole
As I remember it took a few months after it started in August, 1963 for Ready Steady Go to really hit its stride and Cathy McGowan to arrive, and apart from the Beatles, British pop music of that year I would largely associate with Gerry, Billy J., Brian P., Freddie and their groups - The Beatles were paramount that year, but most of my other favourite records of the time from the Top 20/30 (which is mainly what I would get to hear) would still be American. 1964 saw the Stones rivaling the Beatles, plus the arrival of new groups without "and" in the middle of their names - the Animals, the Kinks (the favourite group of most at my school during the year 1964/5) and also Radio Caroline, so that would be my choice.

Re: The Caravelles: The Last One To Know

PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 7:37 pm
by Adam Blake
August 1963 feels right, but I do appreciate that it was a few months before it really kicked in. For me personally, it was being taken to see "A Hard Days Night" a year or so later. I was four. Fifty years later, there's still no sign of me ever getting over it.

Re: The Caravelles: The Last One To Know

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 6:01 pm
by alister prince
RSG was a breakthrough in lots of ways. Cathy McGowan was young and very unslick and unshowbiz. They gave her the be-blazered Keith Fordyce as a chaperone at first, but the style of the show was much less adult led than the Beebs efforts ( eg 6.5 Special). Most of the 'pop' shows were very staged and the acts rooted in showbiz rather than the clubs and dives we all still love. RSG was, and felt live, the audience were really part of it rather than a prop and it wasn't chart obsessed. Some of the guests - Solomon Burke, James Brown, Chuck Berry (still remember that interview Cathy!)...
Aly